What age did you start programming

[N36fSL3A]

In some problems C++ is infact faster than C.

I can't find the page that had an example, but if I do I will post it here.

[Dy7SLyTq]

nope. it depends on how the compiler optimizes the code

[N36fSL3A]

Well played. I am now done.

(Anyway what was this about? We should get back on topic)

[MatthewRock]

Anyway what was this about?

It was about your horrifying ignorance.

Man, I'm 18, and I don't claim that I know everything about C++/programming/programming languages. You are 12 and talk like you were the guru.

Every good programmer will tell you this - language doesn't matter that much. C++ is considered good language because of features it has, and power it brings to you. Nobody can say that C++ is the fastest language, because language doesn't write programs. If we both had to write an array sorting program, and I would use, let's say, java, and you would use C++ - it still doesn't mean your program will be faster. If I use some genius algorithm, it may be really fast. And if, at the same time, you use some really really poor algorithm, then you're done.

Speed depends on programmer, not programming language.

But that's obvious for anyone who knows a bit of coding. The thing that strikes me is that you - being 12 y/o - are throwing authoritative declarations which aren't true, demand others to prove that you are wrong(which should go other way around), and when they provide you with obvious and good arguments, you either say "that's not true, because I say so" or take umbrage at other user, because you simply lack of arguments.

I have a good advice for you - be humble. If you don't act like you know everything, you can learn a lot and open your mind. If you act like you know best, then you won't make progress. Sometimes you have to swallow your pride, say "yes, I'm wrong". And move on. We are people, we all make mistakes, there's nothing wrong with it, especially when learning.

Good luck.

@topic - 16 or 15 afair.

[N36fSL3A]

You don't know everything about C++. Not even Bjarne does.

Anyway, everyone knows that.

I have a good advice for you - be humble. If you don't act like you know everything, you can learn a lot and open your mind. If you act like you know best, then you won't make progress.

Man, I'm 18, and I don't claim that I know everything about C++/programming/programming languages. You are 12 and talk like you were the guru.

I can't be the only one who finds that ironic.

Also, just because you're Eighteen doesn't mean anything. I have been programming just as long(or longer) than you have.

Also, I clearly state that I'm clearly not on people like Disch or LB's level. I usually don't help with problems unless I'm certain I know the answer(which isn't always the case).

[germanchocolate]

Fredbill30 wrote:

You don't know everything about C++

He even said he didn't, so what's your point?

Fredbill30 wrote:

Also, just because you're Eighteen doesn't mean anything.

He's just stating how old he is. Is there something wrong with that?

[Cubbi]

Fredbill30 wrote:

In some problems C++ is infact faster than C.
I can't find the page that had an example, but if I do I will post it here.

The classic example is C++'s std::sort() vs. C's qsort() -- C++ is many times faster for typical use cases on typical compilers.

Computerquip does have a point though - the language specification only requires algorithmic complexity where applicable, but never specific speed of execution. What it can do is make certain optimizations more or less easier, for the compiler writers to make.

on-topic - I think I was 14-ish

[rapidcoder]

But what's the interpreter written in? C. That's why is slower. It's a combo.

However you can't get that into Java fanboy's heads. They have the mindset that Java's faster than C apps when the very interpreter is programmed in C. That's why it's useless talking to them. It's a waste of energy to open your mouth(or type words) to do that. Plain and simple

By this logic I can tell you that C++ is slower than C++, because C++ compiler is written in C++ and compiled by a C++ compiler (self-hosted). Ooops, contradiction. Which proves you're completely wrong.

Java programs are sometimes slower than C++ programs and sometimes faster [1]), only because of language semantics differences and internal compiler heuristics differences. Technically, they both compile to native machine code.

Java-the-language is more strict in terms of memory-safety or floating-point-accuracy which makes it slightly harder to optimize (e.g. the compiler has to elide bounds-checks very aggressively to match C++ which doesn't do them by default). Contrary, the Java dynamic compiler has more information than the C++ compiler when compiling code, which makes it easier to optimize (it is unmatched by any C++ compiler in virtual/dynamic call optimisations or dynamic dead code removal). Bring that together and you get situations when it can be both slower or faster, depending on the problem and how you coded it.

As for PHP - I doubt it can be as fast as C, but again, for completely different reasons. It is a dynamic language, and optimising dynamic language code is extremely hard, because the compiler has to perform often full-program-analysis to recover the static type information. However, don't get fooled by this. More often the framework / libraries/ environment / architecture will be the main factor affecting performance, not the language.


[1] http://lemire.me/blog/archives/2012/07/23/is-cc-worth-it/ (either GCC is still poor at even basic loop-unrolling and vectorization, or Java got that good over time)

[N36fSL3A]

I don't have time to argue with you about C++ v Java. Not even going to talk about it.

german, he stated he was 18 after he said that I was only 12 and thought I was some sort of master.

[BHX]

Man, I'm 18, and I don't claim that I know everything about C++/programming/programming languages. You are 12 and talk like you were the guru.

@Fredbill30 There is no irony in that. The irony would have been if he too had been 12. I'm almost 32 and don't know everything about C++/programming/languages, but after all the times we have called you out on things you have said that were just completely wrong, I have to agree with his comment.

Frebill30 wrote:

You don't know everything about C++. Not even Bjarne does.

Do you realize how that makes no sense. The creator of the language who made it everything it is doesn't know everything. If he didn't know everything he wouldn't be able to write The C++ Language's latest edition that has the new C++11 standard.

On topic, I started programming when I was 12 with BASIC, and dabbled with it off and on. From 13 yrs old to 15 yrs old I did HTML web sites. At 15, I bought C++ for Dummies and started my 17 year trip of learning programming.

[N36fSL3A]

I'm sure you know what I meant BHX.

How did what I type seem like I was a guru or something?

[Dy7SLyTq]

The creator of the language who made it everything it is doesn't know everything.

freds actually quoting me and i stand by it. lets say i write a dll or a header or something that adds an api to c++ for i dont know, making web-pages. if i didnt publish it, then bajarne would have no knowledge of that. while he probably knows the standard inside and out, what i and i think fredbill mean is that he cant possibly know everything that was produced by c++ and made a part of it

[cire]

How did what I type seem like I was a guru or something?

Outside of the Lounge, you make posts to "help" others where you haven't even read and comprehended the post you are replying to. There never seems to be an "I think" or "Maybe if you did this.." anywhere in those posts. Rather, you post as if you're authoritative on the subject. Sometimes you'll also post code that makes no sense (and wouldn't compile anyway.)

Obviously, you aren't a guru. On the other hand, you like to post as if you were. Another Herbert Schildt in the making.

[N36fSL3A]

Well I don't try to post as one, I guess it just comes out that way.

I started to "help" the people outside the lounge because you guys said I didn't do anything and I only posted in the lounge.

I guess I can't please anyone?

I honestly just try to solve other people's problems as fast as possible doing the least amount of work. Bad practices maybe?

[3qX21hU5]

Well I don't try to post as one, I guess it just comes out that way.

I started to "help" the people outside the lounge because you guys said I didn't do anything and I only posted in the lounge.

I guess I can't please anyone?

Then change how you act? We have stated this many times but you tend to just ignore it which is your choice, but as stated before if you don't want people to view in this way you have to change simple as that.

I honestly just try to solve other people's problems as fast as possible doing the least amount of work. Bad practices maybe?

"You" aren't suppose to solve their problems. You are suppose to help "them" solve their problem by answering their questions and walking them through anything they don't understand.

If you don't know how to solve the problem don't answer it. And always always make sure you are posting correct code if you do post any. If you don't you will just be teaching someone else bad practices and making even more problems.

[N36fSL3A]

Is there some sort of article for posting correctly?

[Dy7SLyTq]

http://www.cplusplus.com/forum/beginner/1/

[3qX21hU5]

Maybe the sticky post right on top?

http://www.cplusplus.com/forum/beginner/1/

How To Answer Questions in a Helpful Way

Be gentle. Problem-related stress can make people seem rude or stupid even when they're not.

Reply to a first offender off-line. There is no need of public humiliation for someone who may have made an honest mistake. A real newbie may not know how to search archives or where the FAQ is stored or posted.

If you don't know for sure, say so! A wrong but authoritative-sounding answer is worse than none at all. Don't point anyone down a wrong path simply because it's fun to sound like an expert. Be humble and honest; set a good example for both the querent and your peers.

If you can't help, don't hinder. Don't make jokes about procedures that could trash the user's setup — the poor sap might interpret these as instructions.

Ask probing questions to elicit more details. If you're good at this, the querent will learn something — and so might you. Try to turn the bad question into a good one; remember we were all newbies once.

While muttering RTFM is sometimes justified when replying to someone who is just a lazy slob, a pointer to documentation (even if it's just a suggestion to google for a key phrase) is better.

If you're going to answer the question at all, give good value. Don't suggest kludgy workarounds when somebody is using the wrong tool or approach. Suggest good tools. Reframe the question.

[N36fSL3A]

I actually read this then forgot about it.

Thanks dude.

[BHX]

DTSCode wrote:

freds actually quoting me and i stand by it. lets say i write a dll or a header or something that adds an api to c++ for i dont know, making web-pages. if i didnt publish it, then bajarne would have no knowledge of that. while he probably knows the standard inside and out, what i and i think fredbill mean is that he cant possibly know everything that was produced by c++ and made a part of it

Saying "Bjarne doesn't know everything about C++." is not the same as saying "Bjarne doesn't know everything made with C++." The latter is what you are saying and the first is saying the creator doesn't know his own language. Your example isn't extending C++, it is just using workarounds if they don't exist. Just like SDL/SFML/Allegro probably use assembler to do things the language can't do.