Random rant on US perception of religion
Well tony Bliar actually had to say "we don't do god" in america, you have to realize that America is really hyped up to yo uwhen your a kid and not everything they say is true.
closed account (iw0XoG1T)
| devonrevenge wrote: |
|---|
| not everything they say is true. |
Who were "they"? And why were they hyping America?
Did you post this comment in the wrong thread?
I think he might be referring to both teachers and textbooks. They very much do tend to have a horrible, horrible bias. I recommend that you read Lies my Teacher Told Me: Everything your American Textbook Got Wrong by James Loewen (http://sundown.afro.illinois.edu/liesmyteachertoldme.php). Very good book, and does a fantastic job of explaining how textbooks and such are skewed to be so pro-American that they start rewriting history. As for how it relates to the topic... Well, it was discussed earlier how the basis of law is Christianity, but ironically the basis of democracy comes from the Native American tribes. All of the philosophs were inspired by the tribes, and came up with their ideas from them. So if the judicial branch is based in Christianity, the entire system is based on Native American tribes... yet we only give credit to the Christians.
Thank you Ispil, Im glad I should stand by what I said, chwsks use your imagination next time.
Your tone is one of someone who fancies himself superior and wanted to lay the criticism down.
There's no honor in defending your country without thinking.
@lumpkin, The greeks had the first democracy like that, but theres been plenty of other things like democracy in the past.
The egyptians turned out to not have slaves in the end but turned out to be socialists...they even had free healthcare!!
and old tribes wouldnt have had brutal leaders in the way people make them out to be they would be a lot more like tribes in the amazon or africa...a little bit more reasonable.
Infact Im sure oppression is made out to be a lot worse than it was, it just naturaly becomes a perfect excuse to justify taking civil liberties.
Your tone is one of someone who fancies himself superior and wanted to lay the criticism down.
There's no honor in defending your country without thinking.
@lumpkin, The greeks had the first democracy like that, but theres been plenty of other things like democracy in the past.
The egyptians turned out to not have slaves in the end but turned out to be socialists...they even had free healthcare!!
and old tribes wouldnt have had brutal leaders in the way people make them out to be they would be a lot more like tribes in the amazon or africa...a little bit more reasonable.
Infact Im sure oppression is made out to be a lot worse than it was, it just naturaly becomes a perfect excuse to justify taking civil liberties.
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@Ispil
Democracy has existed in Europe since at least a thousand years BCE, and the US system of government was based largely on the European systems that were in place at the time, in particular the French and English ones. The US government was a "Great Experiment" in republicanism. It was supposed to learn from the mistakes of existing democratic governments.
@Lumpkin
I think Athens had the first recorded democratic society, and I'm fairly sure the Athenians predated the Native Americans. I'm even surer that they didn't have any interaction with each other. At least, there's no evidence of any.
@devonrevenge
I think chwsks was pointing out that your post was a complete non-sequitur. He didn't (explicitly) disagree with what you said at all, you just assumed he was disagreeing; I think he just wanted you to elaborate.
Democracy has existed in Europe since at least a thousand years BCE, and the US system of government was based largely on the European systems that were in place at the time, in particular the French and English ones. The US government was a "Great Experiment" in republicanism. It was supposed to learn from the mistakes of existing democratic governments.
@Lumpkin
I think Athens had the first recorded democratic society, and I'm fairly sure the Athenians predated the Native Americans. I'm even surer that they didn't have any interaction with each other. At least, there's no evidence of any.
@devonrevenge
I think chwsks was pointing out that your post was a complete non-sequitur. He didn't (explicitly) disagree with what you said at all, you just assumed he was disagreeing; I think he just wanted you to elaborate.
closed account (iw0XoG1T)
@devonrevenge
You should not take offense so quickly--I only asked because you are from the UK and I thought it unusual that you would be subject to US propaganda . It also seems to me strange that UK textbooks would have any interest in presenting the US as superior.
I still like an answer: who were they? (but if you don't want to answer that is fine--I enjoy reading what you write. I always like people who defy the status quo)
Also I know that Ispil spoke for you, but he referenced a book that points out that US high school textbooks are full of US propaganda. That is kind of a no "shit sherlock" statement. Anyone who is surprised by this is not very well read.
Also my university experience was different -- US history was not presented as black and white as it was high school.
Again, please don't take offense because none was intended.
You should not take offense so quickly--I only asked because you are from the UK and I thought it unusual that you would be subject to US propaganda . It also seems to me strange that UK textbooks would have any interest in presenting the US as superior.
I still like an answer: who were they? (but if you don't want to answer that is fine--I enjoy reading what you write. I always like people who defy the status quo)
Also I know that Ispil spoke for you, but he referenced a book that points out that US high school textbooks are full of US propaganda. That is kind of a no "shit sherlock" statement. Anyone who is surprised by this is not very well read.
Also my university experience was different -- US history was not presented as black and white as it was high school.
Again, please don't take offense because none was intended.
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the wizards, and yes im a dumbass for hearing a tone in some writing.
A good example would be the media potraying the wars as heroic saving of needy people, where as in actual fact its been about recourses...for example, and that meeting any american they are pretty sure of the media line where as in the UK mistrust is a lot more common.
The whole world is very aware of american propaganda and american double standards, the reason why the subject is so common in debate is because its so frustrating for everyone else, the same reason the athiest theist debates go on and on.
because its like arguing with a brick wall.
BUT a big but, im now also being very opinionated and possibly brainwashed and would love an arsekicking in return, Im trying to be less judgmental but simply being mindful of it isnt working fast enough, and being told everyda is actually making me worse.
A good example would be the media potraying the wars as heroic saving of needy people, where as in actual fact its been about recourses...for example, and that meeting any american they are pretty sure of the media line where as in the UK mistrust is a lot more common.
The whole world is very aware of american propaganda and american double standards, the reason why the subject is so common in debate is because its so frustrating for everyone else, the same reason the athiest theist debates go on and on.
because its like arguing with a brick wall.
BUT a big but, im now also being very opinionated and possibly brainwashed and would love an arsekicking in return, Im trying to be less judgmental but simply being mindful of it isnt working fast enough, and being told everyda is actually making me worse.
closed account (iw0XoG1T)
It is not actually a brick wall ... it is the refusal of people with differing opinions to acknowledge that their is more than one way to understand their existence.
I am going to explain Fundamentalism (which is not quite fair because I am not a fundamentalist), Fundamentalist do not except as truth that the world we live in is governed by logic. It you want to ridicule these people...go ahead it is a free world...it doesn't make you smarter, or prove that you're right...it just demonstrates your inability to except differences.
Now if you believe that the world is governed by logic and attempt to prove that a Fundamentalists beliefs are illogical--why would you be frustrated by the fact that the fundamentalist rejects your arguments? You are the one being illogical you are trying to prove a statement false based on a premise that the fundamentalist rejects.
I have heard the argument that the world be better without religion; but this is a hypothetical argument that cannot be tested in any definitive way (the most anyone could ever do is come up with small anecdotal evidence). It is as easy to demonstrate examples of religion improving society as it is finding examples of when religion hurt society.
If you are interested in what fundamentalist believe and why ask them, but arguing with them is stupid if both you and they are operating on two separate premises that can not be reconciled.
I engage in these talks periodically because it helps me better understand myself...not because I expect someone else's belief to change. Maybe sometimes I want to understand them better, but usually it is just about me.
I am going to explain Fundamentalism (which is not quite fair because I am not a fundamentalist), Fundamentalist do not except as truth that the world we live in is governed by logic. It you want to ridicule these people...go ahead it is a free world...it doesn't make you smarter, or prove that you're right...it just demonstrates your inability to except differences.
Now if you believe that the world is governed by logic and attempt to prove that a Fundamentalists beliefs are illogical--why would you be frustrated by the fact that the fundamentalist rejects your arguments? You are the one being illogical you are trying to prove a statement false based on a premise that the fundamentalist rejects.
I have heard the argument that the world be better without religion; but this is a hypothetical argument that cannot be tested in any definitive way (the most anyone could ever do is come up with small anecdotal evidence). It is as easy to demonstrate examples of religion improving society as it is finding examples of when religion hurt society.
If you are interested in what fundamentalist believe and why ask them, but arguing with them is stupid if both you and they are operating on two separate premises that can not be reconciled.
I engage in these talks periodically because it helps me better understand myself...not because I expect someone else's belief to change. Maybe sometimes I want to understand them better, but usually it is just about me.
This is very good spiel chwsks, I like your awarness this makes me feel better about humanity, thank you for learning me stuff.
Wish I could be as clear minded and good at critical thinking as you are.
Wish I could be as clear minded and good at critical thinking as you are.
@ Superdude: Have you ever noticed that the user name above their post is a hyperlink?
I don't think you can begin to understand how much I like that comment.
edit: (also it's "it's alright"
edit: (also it's "it's alright"
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We Devonians are a proud people, we will never forget what the British did to us.
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