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Windows 7 or 8?
As a professional in the IT field for over twenty years, I can say without a doubt that 7 is better in terms of useability, overall performance, and gaming performance. I have yet to code specifically for 8, so I cannot comment on the library.
I have quite a few commercial clients in my area and none have made the move to 8. 8 Was designed to be used with touch devices, not a desktop PC. The few who have a personal PC that have given it a shot report bad things and a major loss of productivity due to all the differences. 8 was and is built for Windows Phone and Surface, not for the desktop. It really is that simple.
Also, from a domain administrator's standpoint, it would seriously slow me down. My business runs Debian/GNU Linux, but we have Windows XP and Windows 7 in VirtualBox for managing AD at client locations. I also have an 8 system virtualized. Performance suffers every time that I attempt to use it. All of those unnatural mouse gestures, the long path to shutting it down if I do not use CTRL+H (ACPI halt), and the overall way things work there is just too much. Stick with 7 until 9 comes out and (hopefully) goes back to being a desktop OS with a taskbar, real start menu, and all of the goodness that makes a system easy to use!
Also, we only use Firefox, a move that our clients have adopted as well, for the most part. Chrome and Safari are the epic failures in security at most of the recent white-hat conventions. Oh, and IE10 and now 11 are right on the heels of FF in terms of security. I must admit that while I spent years with FF, I am no longer afraid to use IE for a site that requires an ActiveX control or something.
*UPDATE*
I saw an earlier post about how corporate people are stuck with IE. Not true. We deploy Firefox and Thunderbird at two of our biggest clients and they love it. The best part? If I need to update it, I simply plop the new installers on the share and change the version number in my script and they get updated. And yes, I have good control over the install, such as location, what gets installed (no maintenance service), and even which icons are created. There is even an AD extension that allows me to lock down FF settings if I choose to, just like IE.
I have quite a few commercial clients in my area and none have made the move to 8. 8 Was designed to be used with touch devices, not a desktop PC. The few who have a personal PC that have given it a shot report bad things and a major loss of productivity due to all the differences. 8 was and is built for Windows Phone and Surface, not for the desktop. It really is that simple.
Also, from a domain administrator's standpoint, it would seriously slow me down. My business runs Debian/GNU Linux, but we have Windows XP and Windows 7 in VirtualBox for managing AD at client locations. I also have an 8 system virtualized. Performance suffers every time that I attempt to use it. All of those unnatural mouse gestures, the long path to shutting it down if I do not use CTRL+H (ACPI halt), and the overall way things work there is just too much. Stick with 7 until 9 comes out and (hopefully) goes back to being a desktop OS with a taskbar, real start menu, and all of the goodness that makes a system easy to use!
Also, we only use Firefox, a move that our clients have adopted as well, for the most part. Chrome and Safari are the epic failures in security at most of the recent white-hat conventions. Oh, and IE10 and now 11 are right on the heels of FF in terms of security. I must admit that while I spent years with FF, I am no longer afraid to use IE for a site that requires an ActiveX control or something.
*UPDATE*
I saw an earlier post about how corporate people are stuck with IE. Not true. We deploy Firefox and Thunderbird at two of our biggest clients and they love it. The best part? If I need to update it, I simply plop the new installers on the share and change the version number in my script and they get updated. And yes, I have good control over the install, such as location, what gets installed (no maintenance service), and even which icons are created. There is even an AD extension that allows me to lock down FF settings if I choose to, just like IE.
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| Also, I have to add, I am glad to see that IE isn't even on the list, hehe. |
@Sephiroth, Thanks for such an in depth view between the 2 systems (to your current knowledge)...
What I feel that the big problem is with Win8 is almost exactly what you mentioned above,
| 8 was and is built for Windows Phone and Surface, not for the desktop. It really is that simple. |
It's my personal beleive that it was ONLY designed for phone and tablet but then someone thought "Hey, y'know what'd make us loads of money for not doing anything? Lets port the phone OS onto a PC and insist that all new computers must have this terrible version of windows installed... people will hate it so much that they'll all buy a decent version of windows, or not be able to actually do anything with there PC"
^I too feel that way. Aside from the metro if anything i noticed changed in windows 8 is the ms defender , the theme , several core apps and the copy/move dialog ;) . If talking about just the desktop what changed (for better) in win8.
(Please answer those who think win8 is an improvement over win7 , i'm curious .).
(Please answer those who think win8 is an improvement over win7 , i'm curious .).
Fresh windows 8.1 next to windows 7 windows 8 booted faster for me. And I actually like the changes they've made for explorer. Hell, I don't mind metro.
You have to understand that very few of these Metro apps ever would have been written as traditional desktop apps. You're not sacrificing desktop usability for Metro apps; you're getting Metro apps in addition to your desktop.
You may not like the Reader app, but it has a huge advantage even on desktop PCs: it's not Adobe Reader. That means no annoying updater and none of Adobe's security flaws. If you really want a desktop PDF reader, you can install one. The reader app is only going to get better though; did you know it allows you to write on the book if you have a stylus?
It's also easy to hate on the new start screen, but nobody liked the old start menu before Windows 8 was previewed. You could pin a few apps, but the "All programs" list was worthless because it occupied such a small portion of the screen. With the new interface you can still pin apps, you can still type the name of a program, and you can much more easily navigate the list of programs on your machine.
Windows 8 also has some benefits that are always ignored in these discussions. In particular, the improved kernel solves some of the long-standing issues with previous versions. If you're running Windows 7 and you have Chrome, Steam, or one of many other programs running in the background, your kernel is stuck ticking 16 times more often than it needs to, significantly raising power consumption and resource utilization. Those programs are supposed to request a high timer resolution only while they need it, but instead they leave it at maximum for as long as they are running. The Windows 8 kernel is tickless, so it can wake each individual process whenever it needs to without ticking every millisecond.
You may not like the Reader app, but it has a huge advantage even on desktop PCs: it's not Adobe Reader. That means no annoying updater and none of Adobe's security flaws. If you really want a desktop PDF reader, you can install one. The reader app is only going to get better though; did you know it allows you to write on the book if you have a stylus?
It's also easy to hate on the new start screen, but nobody liked the old start menu before Windows 8 was previewed. You could pin a few apps, but the "All programs" list was worthless because it occupied such a small portion of the screen. With the new interface you can still pin apps, you can still type the name of a program, and you can much more easily navigate the list of programs on your machine.
Windows 8 also has some benefits that are always ignored in these discussions. In particular, the improved kernel solves some of the long-standing issues with previous versions. If you're running Windows 7 and you have Chrome, Steam, or one of many other programs running in the background, your kernel is stuck ticking 16 times more often than it needs to, significantly raising power consumption and resource utilization. Those programs are supposed to request a high timer resolution only while they need it, but instead they leave it at maximum for as long as they are running. The Windows 8 kernel is tickless, so it can wake each individual process whenever it needs to without ticking every millisecond.
| your kernel is stuck ticking 16 times more often than it needs to |
However I was kinda asking how people feel about how the system now works, not what people know about the system. Still a good point though, although that's a small compensation for all the other flaws covered.
Anyways the attempt of this was not to start an argument over the 2 systems, just to share in your opinion which you prefer and why.
@Telion:
Yes, Windows 8 adds alot more functionality with these additional apps:
- They go fullscreen, no multitasking
- Their data is stored in a part of the filesystem windows doesn't want to give you access to
- They can't RUN IN WINDOWED MODE.
Try browsing the web and typing in word, while using a calculator at the same time with nothing but metor apps, then I'll agree.
Of course, you could always just get windows 7...
Yes, Windows 8 adds alot more functionality with these additional apps:
- They go fullscreen, no multitasking
- Their data is stored in a part of the filesystem windows doesn't want to give you access to
- They can't RUN IN WINDOWED MODE.
Try browsing the web and typing in word, while using a calculator at the same time with nothing but metor apps, then I'll agree.
Of course, you could always just get windows 7...
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closed account (3qX21hU5)
Them damn metor apps ;p
In all seriousness though who would have guessed this would turn into a hate on windows 8 thread ;p. Weird...
Ok so you agree? Because that is quite easy in windows 8.1 with split screening across multiple monitors or just a single monitor...
In all seriousness though who would have guessed this would turn into a hate on windows 8 thread ;p. Weird...
| IWishIKnew wrote: |
|---|
| Try browsing the web and typing in word, while using a calculator at the same time with nothing but metor apps, then I'll agree. |
Ok so you agree? Because that is quite easy in windows 8.1 with split screening across multiple monitors or just a single monitor...
Zereo Wrote:
Sorry if I'm not willing to take my chances with 8.1 after the disaster that is Windows 8..
| Ok so you agree? Because that is quite easy in windows 8.1 with split screening across multiple monitors or just a single monitor... |
Sorry if I'm not willing to take my chances with 8.1 after the disaster that is Windows 8..
closed account (3qX21hU5)
| IWishIKnew wrote: |
|---|
| Sorry if I'm not willing to take my chances with 8.1 after the disaster that is Windows 8.. |
Wasn't saying you had to... I was just pointing out that what you are saying isn't exactly true. At least not after the update. You can have your opinions about just like I can have mine but just wanted to point out some of the facts on this matter.
Also I don't really get the reasoning behind not willing to upgrade to windows 8.1 when essentially 8.1 is a fix/update for a lot of the things that you don't like about windows 8?
You are basically saying that you hate windows 8 but are just going to stick with windows 8 and not upgrade to 8.1 because windows 8 sucks?
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Lets put it this way:
I have a laptop not a Tablet. Great, now I can split screen between apps, but I still can't do all the things I could do if they weren't "apps".
The problem with Windows is that they want to budge their way into a market they just simply can't compete in, without creating a completely unique OS for a completely unique tablet. No one wants to use a touch screen on a laptop: It's just goofy. "Are you saying I can reach all the way accross my keyboard and try to press that little red X button to close the window?" "...YES."
And forget about the interface: the programs that windows runs are just despotic! The thing runs some sort of "schedualed maintainence" in the background, with no alert, and no way to shut it off until it's finished. THEN you have to schedual it to run at 2 am (no one is up at that time, right??), AND THEN you can't even stop it from running, you can only set it to not try to run after missing a schedualed run.
Oh, and let's not forget the worste part: 9 svchost.exe running at the same time all the time!! They don't take CPU... they just run... AV doesn't pick anything up, niether does AS, so what's the deal windows? It would be incredibly easy to infect a system with a fake svchost.exe, and the user wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
Enough said.
I have a laptop not a Tablet. Great, now I can split screen between apps, but I still can't do all the things I could do if they weren't "apps".
The problem with Windows is that they want to budge their way into a market they just simply can't compete in, without creating a completely unique OS for a completely unique tablet. No one wants to use a touch screen on a laptop: It's just goofy. "Are you saying I can reach all the way accross my keyboard and try to press that little red X button to close the window?" "...YES."
And forget about the interface: the programs that windows runs are just despotic! The thing runs some sort of "schedualed maintainence" in the background, with no alert, and no way to shut it off until it's finished. THEN you have to schedual it to run at 2 am (no one is up at that time, right??), AND THEN you can't even stop it from running, you can only set it to not try to run after missing a schedualed run.
Oh, and let's not forget the worste part: 9 svchost.exe running at the same time all the time!! They don't take CPU... they just run... AV doesn't pick anything up, niether does AS, so what's the deal windows? It would be incredibly easy to infect a system with a fake svchost.exe, and the user wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
Enough said.
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Personally, I find Windows 7 to have a much better user interface, especially with the easy-to-access search bar that I use every five minutes.
Why is everyone bashing on windows 8 because of the apps? You do not have to use the apps if you do not want to. Just download or purchase your favorite programs and run them on the desktop. I know the desktop is an app, but it really does act just like windows 7's, just without a start menu. I have not used ANY of the apps since I got windows 8 in March. Also someone said something about shutting it down is hard? Ok on a laptop, just swipe your finger from the left of the touchpad and it's 2 clicks away, about the same as windows 7, with a desktop, it's basically the same just instead of swiping your finger, go to the bottom left of the screen with your mouse, again 2 clicks away. And one more thing someone also said copy/paste is different? HOW?! it's exactly the same! right click and it's there, or ctrl + c and ctrl + v. Some of this is some of my opinion, but most of it is just fact.
| goes back to being a desktop OS with a taskbar, real start menu, and all of the goodness that makes a system easy to use! |
8 does have a task bar, and who uses a start menu anyways. It's much easier to press a few keys to navigate than to move the mouse around; dragging from box to box to box.
If you want a few applications to be available on click, then pin them to the task bar. I have 19 on mine, but still I rarely point and click to open an application.
A productivity concerned person should be comparing search functionality.
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closed account (3qX21hU5)
First I would like to say I am not trying to change your mind about windows 8 because it is obvious you have your own opinions about it. I just want to point a few things out.
That is actually quite normal. I am on my laptop right now (Which is running Windows 7 btw) and have more then 9 svchost.exe's running. So not sure why you think windows 8 is somehow different...
Have you checked to see what exactly they are running?
Press windows key + r and then type in the open box
The only reason why I pointed that out is because you said you couldn't do it and I just wanted to let you know that yes you can do it.
Windows 8 doesn't force you to use metro apps you can still use the same old desktop applications like people are used to which you seem to be implying that you can't.
If you don't like how in 8.1 the start button can either bring you to metro or the all apps page you can always install a 3rd party start button which will work just like windows 7 and still give you the benefits of windows 8.
http://www.startisback.com/
Actually there is a way to turn this off if we are talking about the same thing (Idle maintenance).
First go into your task scheduler (Type "task" in the UI under apps).
Next go to the following path
Then right click on Idle Maintenance & Regular Maintenance and select disable. And you are done.
Here is a post with pictures and everything http://superuser.com/questions/497500/disable-automatic-maintenance-in-windows-8
| Oh, and let's not forget the worste part: 9 svchost.exe running at the same time all the time!! They don't take CPU... they just run... AV doesn't pick anything up, niether does AS, so what's the deal windows? It would be incredibly easy to infect a system with a fake svchost.exe, and the user wouldn't be able to tell the difference. |
That is actually quite normal. I am on my laptop right now (Which is running Windows 7 btw) and have more then 9 svchost.exe's running. So not sure why you think windows 8 is somehow different...
Have you checked to see what exactly they are running?
Press windows key + r and then type in the open box
cmd /k tasklist /svc this will give you a idea.| I have a laptop not a Tablet. Great, now I can split screen between apps, but I still can't do all the things I could do if they weren't "apps". |
The only reason why I pointed that out is because you said you couldn't do it and I just wanted to let you know that yes you can do it.
Windows 8 doesn't force you to use metro apps you can still use the same old desktop applications like people are used to which you seem to be implying that you can't.
If you don't like how in 8.1 the start button can either bring you to metro or the all apps page you can always install a 3rd party start button which will work just like windows 7 and still give you the benefits of windows 8.
http://www.startisback.com/
| And forget about the interface: the programs that windows runs are just despotic! The thing runs some sort of "schedualed maintainence" in the background, with no alert, and no way to shut it off until it's finished. THEN you have to schedual it to run at 2 am (no one is up at that time, right??), AND THEN you can't even stop it from running, you can only set it to not try to run after missing a schedualed run. |
Actually there is a way to turn this off if we are talking about the same thing (Idle maintenance).
First go into your task scheduler (Type "task" in the UI under apps).
Next go to the following path
Task Scheduler > Microsoft > Windows > Task SchedulerThen right click on Idle Maintenance & Regular Maintenance and select disable. And you are done.
Here is a post with pictures and everything http://superuser.com/questions/497500/disable-automatic-maintenance-in-windows-8
@Zereo:
I had a windows7 laptop: only 16 process, 1 svchost.exe if nothing was running. On windows 8, doesn't matter what's running.
My point is they can skim it down.
Also, I recognize that if you aren't a power user, it probably doesn't bother you in the slightest.
I had a windows7 laptop: only 16 process, 1 svchost.exe if nothing was running. On windows 8, doesn't matter what's running.
My point is they can skim it down.
Also, I recognize that if you aren't a power user, it probably doesn't bother you in the slightest.
From my perspective Windows is just silly. It is always trying to catch Linux. We get a 3D desktop, Windows gets a glossy look. We get tickelss systems years ago, Windows 8 is a tickless system. However, Windows does have group policy to lock down things on an AD domain. Linux systems on my domain need to be configured individually, so Windows DOES have that very nice feature.
As for features though, which seems to be a good debate, I don't really think there is any thing more or less on either system. It is just a pain in the rear to use them in 8, unless you have a touchscreen. Windows 8 was designed solely for touch. Heck, Microsoft even admitted to having problems making the keyboard and mouse inputs work due to emulating touch with them. That's right, just like a console game ported to PC (Skyrim, anybody?), Windows 8 is clunky due to the way it was designed to work. Microsoft just didn't realize that most people do not have touchscreens, and those of us that are hardcore graphics guys still purchase expensive CRT monitors. 50,000:1 LCD? Hell my cheap CRT is 150,000:1 and my normal ones are double that! However, they are not touch-sensitive...
As a side note here, I now have to install 7 on a new laptop. A client bought it, tried 8, hates it, and is now paying me to purchase 7 Pro and install it. I get this all the time...
As for features though, which seems to be a good debate, I don't really think there is any thing more or less on either system. It is just a pain in the rear to use them in 8, unless you have a touchscreen. Windows 8 was designed solely for touch. Heck, Microsoft even admitted to having problems making the keyboard and mouse inputs work due to emulating touch with them. That's right, just like a console game ported to PC (Skyrim, anybody?), Windows 8 is clunky due to the way it was designed to work. Microsoft just didn't realize that most people do not have touchscreens, and those of us that are hardcore graphics guys still purchase expensive CRT monitors. 50,000:1 LCD? Hell my cheap CRT is 150,000:1 and my normal ones are double that! However, they are not touch-sensitive...
As a side note here, I now have to install 7 on a new laptop. A client bought it, tried 8, hates it, and is now paying me to purchase 7 Pro and install it. I get this all the time...
closed account (N36fSL3A)
Chillll what if I said both Windows and Linux copied Apple with the GUI? Or that Apple copied Microsoft's tablet?
I'd say that apple copied xerox with the gui and bill gates responded to such of stealing from apple as saying it's like they both had a rich neighbor and wanted their TV.
Okay so I've noticed that the main thread of this debate is coming from the fact that Win8 adds or edits a load of sh*t that people don't like.
Those who do like Win8 simply respond by saying that most of this stuff can either be turned off, ignored by the owner, or configured to be less... irritating.
The fact is that if Win8 didn't have all these problems/"features" in the first place, it really wouldn't be such a problem... Or even if it still has all it's current capabilities but everything is disabled by default.
i.e. No metro apps, the normal start menu, the normal desktop, etc.
Actually I reckon that it'd be a good idea to be configurable during the first ever boot up of your OS (like when you set the language, time/date, main admin, etc).
btw, on this Win7 PC I have about 65 processes running, (including 8 chrome.exe) but not a single instance of svchost.exe
(I know 60(ish) is a lot but this came with a lot of bloat-ware and it's not my PC to filter through it all and remove it)
Those who do like Win8 simply respond by saying that most of this stuff can either be turned off, ignored by the owner, or configured to be less... irritating.
The fact is that if Win8 didn't have all these problems/"features" in the first place, it really wouldn't be such a problem... Or even if it still has all it's current capabilities but everything is disabled by default.
i.e. No metro apps, the normal start menu, the normal desktop, etc.
Actually I reckon that it'd be a good idea to be configurable during the first ever boot up of your OS (like when you set the language, time/date, main admin, etc).
btw, on this Win7 PC I have about 65 processes running, (including 8 chrome.exe) but not a single instance of svchost.exe
(I know 60(ish) is a lot but this came with a lot of bloat-ware and it's not my PC to filter through it all and remove it)