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Wow seriously?
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I feel like people can do what ever with their money and shouldn't feel guilty for not throwing away their money like you are saying we should. Anyways giving a "homeless" person money wouldn't help for 1) it encourages their begging and 2) they are more than likely going to spend it on alcohol or drugs. If you really feel like helping them you could volunteer at a shelter, buy them food, necessities, clothing, ect..
Some people just don't understand...
1) I never said to throw away money but rather to help by a bit.
2) Helping by money doesn't always necessarily mean giving cash directly. You can buy things for them.
3) No one buys them anything like you are saying they should help them that way. If you've seen the video, no one buys him a loaf of bread or give him some chocolates or something.
4) I also never said that people can't do what with their money.
1) I never said to throw away money but rather to help by a bit.
2) Helping by money doesn't always necessarily mean giving cash directly. You can buy things for them.
3) No one buys them anything like you are saying they should help them that way. If you've seen the video, no one buys him a loaf of bread or give him some chocolates or something.
4) I also never said that people can't do what with their money.
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if you work 5 times a week for 8-10 hours to buy yourself something, and then some lazy bum ask for free cash, no wonder people don't give them nothing.
People who really need help are mostly too proud to ask someone else for it. Those who ask, are mostly scammers.
People who really need help are mostly too proud to ask someone else for it. Those who ask, are mostly scammers.
People who really need help are not "proud". There is no reason to be proud. They are rather ashamed and feel humiliating to ask for money. Pride is something else; it is what someone feels when they have something good.
| giblit wrote: |
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| I feel like people can do what ever with their money and shouldn't feel guilty for not throwing away their money like you are saying we should. |
If you are spending money on things you want and don't need then you are still throwing away money.
| Stormboy wrote: |
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| People who really need help are not "proud". There is no reason to be proud. They are rather ashamed and feel humiliating to ask for money. Pride is something else; it is what someone feels when they have something good. |
Exactly. Those who are proud won't take money from others because they feel it is charity and feel insulted by it. I had grandparents like this, worked all their lives to get what they had and wouldn't take money from anyone.
| Stormboy wrote: |
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| Nevertheless, you can usually never know whether a person is in fact homeless or is faking it, so why not give him a few bucks or so. Atleast it'd be satisfying that IF he was really helpless, you've helped him out. |
It wouldn't be satisfying. Like I said... every time I've done this, I regretted it immediately. I felt like I was just conned... that this asshole just took advantage of my generosity. It makes me sick to my stomach and makes me feel like a tool... each and every time. I'll never willingly do that to myself again. I've learned my lesson many times over.
closed account (3hM2Nwbp)
Funny how people can't find jobs. I landed my 2nd job within 36 hours of searching. Actually got calls from 3 employers. If someone says they can't find work, they're full of it. Period.
That's how I find it hard to believe that bums "can't help it"...
@ Luc Lieber: You're an auto mechanic; and from what I can tell you have around a decade or so of experience. The only people I can think of that have an easier time finding work are Master Electricians and possibly HVAC engineers. So you're not exactly the stereotypical homeless candidate here.
That being said, I more or less agree with the sentiment. I personally hate that in the 80's we eliminated almost all of our state funded psychiatric care for the mentally ill because of some mud slinging hack of a journalist who should have been lynched at the time but instead he was called a hero; but this only impacts a very small number of the homeless people in the US. Most of them just can't bring themselves to do what it takes to be an adult. Whether it's to finish school, show up to work or stay sober, they just won't do it long enough to be a functional member of society.
If you want to donate somewhere then give your money to a local charity or shelter. That way you know your money is going to buy food, and even better, they buy it wholesale so your dollar is providing more food for more people.
That being said, I more or less agree with the sentiment. I personally hate that in the 80's we eliminated almost all of our state funded psychiatric care for the mentally ill because of some mud slinging hack of a journalist who should have been lynched at the time but instead he was called a hero; but this only impacts a very small number of the homeless people in the US. Most of them just can't bring themselves to do what it takes to be an adult. Whether it's to finish school, show up to work or stay sober, they just won't do it long enough to be a functional member of society.
If you want to donate somewhere then give your money to a local charity or shelter. That way you know your money is going to buy food, and even better, they buy it wholesale so your dollar is providing more food for more people.
| Luc Lieber wrote: |
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| Funny how people can't find jobs. |
They all could just work on McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, etc. Would you be willing to do that if you lost your jobs and suddenly kept getting turned down by other companies saying they weren't hiring at that time? One requirement to have a job is to have a home address and if you live there less than a year you have to list three or more previous addresses. A lot of people became homeless the last few years because of banks foreclosing on them.
As I said, there are thousands of variables that come into play. As this thread has shown, it is super easy to be smug, be heartless, and look down at someone in need, but I wonder how smug everyone would be if they were in their shoes.
I'm not homeless, but I get looked down on. Everyone has looked down on me for having a special needs wife and son to where I can't work anymore since his health problems started in August 2012. Programming is my escape from the stress and why I went to college, but the only reason I get turned down for is that I don't have "industry experience". I wonder how many of them could have lasted the 13 years I have been with my wife and the two years I've been taking care of my son's health issue.
Let me say... I do have sympathy for people who are in a rough patch. A buddy of mine from highschool is in such a patch right now and I have sent him some money to help out. I've also given money to my brother several times to help out when he didn't have quite enough to make ends meet.
So it's not that I'm uncaring, or selfish, or greedy. It's that I genuinely don't believe the people asking me for money on the street are actively trying to get themselves back on their feet. I think most of them have resigned to the fact that this is their life now, and they're just trying to make enough money to get drunk/high.
EDIT: and this is part of my point. To end up on the street asking for strangers, not only would you have to lose everything... but you'd also have to alienate any friends/family that you can turn to for help. And while it's true that a lot of people have shitty friends/families (which is largely environmental), I don't know if I'd believe that's true for a lot of bums. Given how conniving, manipulative, and aggressive they tend to be... I find it much more likely that their friends/family just got sick of being taken advantage of by them and stopped helping them.
But again I'm speaking from my own experience of dealing with these people. Maybe the demographics are different in other parts of the country.
And I'm not saying as a society we shouldn't try to help them. I'm just saying I'm not personally going to help them. I would definitely support some kind of tax which goes to fund some sort of aid, though. I'm a big fan of social programs like that.
/EDIT
My buddy from HS tried that. He applied to fast food places all over. Pretty much everywhere he could find. No dice.
So yeah.... some people are in shitty situations. There's no doubt. Even if you have experience in a marketable field, that is no guarantee that you will get hired. And if you don't, it makes it even harder.
So it's not that I'm uncaring, or selfish, or greedy. It's that I genuinely don't believe the people asking me for money on the street are actively trying to get themselves back on their feet. I think most of them have resigned to the fact that this is their life now, and they're just trying to make enough money to get drunk/high.
EDIT: and this is part of my point. To end up on the street asking for strangers, not only would you have to lose everything... but you'd also have to alienate any friends/family that you can turn to for help. And while it's true that a lot of people have shitty friends/families (which is largely environmental), I don't know if I'd believe that's true for a lot of bums. Given how conniving, manipulative, and aggressive they tend to be... I find it much more likely that their friends/family just got sick of being taken advantage of by them and stopped helping them.
But again I'm speaking from my own experience of dealing with these people. Maybe the demographics are different in other parts of the country.
And I'm not saying as a society we shouldn't try to help them. I'm just saying I'm not personally going to help them. I would definitely support some kind of tax which goes to fund some sort of aid, though. I'm a big fan of social programs like that.
/EDIT
| They all could just work on McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, etc. Would you be willing to do that if you lost your jobs and suddenly kept getting turned down by other companies saying they weren't hiring at that time? |
My buddy from HS tried that. He applied to fast food places all over. Pretty much everywhere he could find. No dice.
So yeah.... some people are in shitty situations. There's no doubt. Even if you have experience in a marketable field, that is no guarantee that you will get hired. And if you don't, it makes it even harder.
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@Disch
I completely understand your feelings on the matter, and you are absolutely correct any money you or I give to someone isn't going to help their situation. I give them money anyway (when I can afford it) even knowing they are likely to get high. I know I am enabling them but me not isn't going to stop them. And over the years I've talked to many people on the street (homeless, addicts, mentally ill) and I can't knock them for getting high to get through their pain.
During one of the worst times of my life when I was a late rent payment away from being homeless, I sat and talked to a guy. I don't know if he was homeless, but he was a crack head and definitely had some mental issues. I sat and listened to his story for awhile and he gives me $20 that I didn't ask for and he certainly couldn't afford. I took the money because I couldn't afford not to. This happened almost 20 years ago and I'll never forget it.
I completely understand your feelings on the matter, and you are absolutely correct any money you or I give to someone isn't going to help their situation. I give them money anyway (when I can afford it) even knowing they are likely to get high. I know I am enabling them but me not isn't going to stop them. And over the years I've talked to many people on the street (homeless, addicts, mentally ill) and I can't knock them for getting high to get through their pain.
During one of the worst times of my life when I was a late rent payment away from being homeless, I sat and talked to a guy. I don't know if he was homeless, but he was a crack head and definitely had some mental issues. I sat and listened to his story for awhile and he gives me $20 that I didn't ask for and he certainly couldn't afford. I took the money because I couldn't afford not to. This happened almost 20 years ago and I'll never forget it.
closed account (3hM2Nwbp)
@BHX - Yeah, I'd most definitely take whatever employment I could find. Just because someone wants a better job does in no way mean that sitting around collecting welfare checks is the only way to do so. I'm harsh, I know that. It just irks me that I'm putting in well over 60 hours per week while others are sitting around (doing nothing, or perhaps drugs?) collecting on my labor. *It should be noted that I'm speaking in terms of the USA. I have no clue about how this applies to other countries.
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| It just irks me that I'm putting in well over 60 hours per week |
It irks me that people have to put in over 60 hours a week. I think that's extremely unreasonable. I think that's a bigger problem than people being out of work.
Hell, I think 40 is too much... and that's widely accepted as normal.
EDIT:
It also don't really like it when people who work too much "rub it in" to people who don't work that much and/or expect the bar to be raised for everyone else. I don't know if that's what you were doing, but it kind of came across that way. =P
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closed account (3hM2Nwbp)
@Disch - I only mean to rub it in to those working 0 hours / week. As long as they're doing *something* I don't mind it as much. If a couple both work 20/wk, that's awesome and I'm glad for them. Maybe some day I'll be able to slow down too. *Of course there are exceptions such as legit. disabilities, maternity, or other circumstances that justify not working...also off topic: why are morbidly obese people able to get "handicapped" status?? Just today I saw a legless vietnam veteran and his wife have to park 2 spots down because "handicapped" (fat) people took all of the reserved parking. **Bad formatting is because enter doesn't work on my nexus keyboard; :(
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Last I knew anything over 40 a week was overtime. Though does that mean Luc Lieber is rubbing it in because I no longer work? ;)
closed account (3hM2Nwbp)
Alas overtime is fair game to Uncle Sam just like the first 40...
@BHX - I think you fall into the "legit" category for unemployment if you have responsibilities that don't allow you to work away from home. The "legit" % is very low from what I have personally seen, however.
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