Adoption by Homosexual Couples

[Disch]

Nathan wrote:

Scroll to the last answer:

That is not evidence, that is some guy making extraordinary claims without providing any evidence.

If you can link me to an actual page where it shows the things he's talking about, I would prefer that.

Some snippits of his post:

there are historical papers outside the bible with the name of jesus christ (in the old langauges of course) & his whole family including the half-blood brothers & sisters

"I read it in another book" is the same as "I read it in a book". Not evidence.

the bible says: when jesus died there was a huge quake & a crack appeared under his cross going into the ground. when his side was pierced, he bled out blood & water & it went into the crack.

this crack has recently been found...i'll get back to this.

the 'ark of the covenant' (throne of god) went missing thousands of years ago. it has been recently found. guess where? uh huh under calvary. it has human male blood on its seat. DIRECTLY UNDER that crack!

He says the crack is found, but doesn't say where. He also says the Ark was found, but doesn't say where... and also, the Ark either hasn't been found... or has been found in multiple different places:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_of_the_Covenant#Possible_locations

My understanding is that there was only 1 Ark. So all (except for maybe one) of the people claiming to have found it are lying and/or mistaken.


DNA extracted shows properties a child would get from his mother....NONE however from a human father. there is "some other type of DNA" instead...not found in any species on earth...hmmm

That's quite an extraordinary claim. If there is evidence of this, I would be very interested in it! It would certainly adjust my viewpoint.

But he provides no evidence. He just states this as if it were fact, without linking to the actual DNA analysis.. or even to an article discussing the DNA analysis.

the bible says: king nimrod built the first skyscraper, tower of babel.

an imprint of an ancient tower has been found...believed to be babel.

Again, where?

And finding remnants of an ancient tower does not mean that tower was Babel. It's entirely possible that ancient people could have built other towers.

But even if it is Babel, that doesn't prove God destroyed it and made everyone start speaking separate languages. It only proves that there was a tower named Babel.

the bible says: sodom & 4 other cities were destroyed by fire & brimstone. lots wife was turned to a salt pillar

at one end of the dead sea....there has recently been found ruins of a few cities. the rocks around them are not found anywhere else, can burn hot...sulphrous like & just lying around. outside the cities area....a tall pillar of salt is standing...very very old.

More extraordinary claims without offering proof. Where are these cities? What are the rocks made of? When was it tested how they burn?

Also... a tower of salt would not have survived 2000+ years. It would have dissolved in the first rain (water dissolves salt - chemistry 101).




His post continues, but I'm going to stop here. A random forum post is not evidence. Since we clearly have different ideas of what evidence is, I think I'm going to bow out of this conversation again.



Just to reiterate... my philosophy is "question everything". I try to only accept an explanation if there is physical proof to support it. So show me some physical proof.

[9E360pDG]

@gilbit: I've given mine but you don't want to believe it so:
[quote = I]

Scroll to the last answer [url = https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130927232615AAB72fx ]
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Another: [url = http://carm.org/atheists-you-wont-find-god-that-way ]
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Another: [url= http://christiananswers.net/evangelism/beliefs/atheism.html ]
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Another: [url = http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/do-atheists-really-believe-there-is-no-god/ ]
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Another: [url = http://creation.mobi/trust-the-bible ]

Read all of them to the end

[/quote]

[oSGzwA7f]

Why are so many of you so invested in changing Nathan's opinion? Do you really believe you are helping him?

Your beliefs are not more valid because you are better at defending them. Remember Nathan is a 12-year-old kid; arguing with him can only at best prove you are better at defending your opinion than a child.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if some Christian scientists were on this forum?

This is a C++ forum that caters to beginners; you are not going find to many professionals at all.

There are better places to discuss religion. If you are interested in religion or even arguing about religion there are better places on the net; places where you can talk with intelligent adults, but those places might not make you feel superior.

[NoXzema]

It's fine to argue, even to a slightly dedicated point. Its not wasting your time so I could question your reason for caring.

[BHX]

This thread has become completely counter productive to the site. Looking at some of the veteran member's profiles who normally help in other threads have nothing but this thread on their profile. Have any of you helped on the other threads or forums? You have been arguing the same points just reworded with a member who apparently is 12, or at least has the mentality of a child.

I've already contacted Twicker about locking this at this point with the express argument that it has become counter productive to the whole site. Think about it, how bad is it when I'm the one pointing this out?

[Drrockso]

@gms508
How do you know Nathan's age.

[helios]

BHX: Dude, GTFO. Don't you have more important things to do than keeping track of where other people post? Just who do you think you are?

http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/do-atheists-really-believe-there-is-no-god/

I can do that, too.
I don't believe Christians actually believe in God and Heaven, or they would throw parties when members of their family contract deadly diseases. Their "belief" is really nothing more than a skin-deep self-delusion that breaks down at the slightest contact with reality.

[z05DSL3A]

I've already contacted Twicker about locking this at this point with the express argument that it has become counter productive to the whole site. Think about it, how bad is it when I'm the one pointing this out?

I do hope Twicker ignores you on this point.

[Drrockso]

I would not feel very good if I was messing with a 12 year old.

[oSGzwA7f]

helios wrote:

I don't believe Christians actually believe in God and Heaven

Christians make this mistake too. They are sometimes unable to respect others opinions.

edit:

I should say they are sometime unable too acknowledge that someone could have an opinion different than their own.

edit:

Please ignore missed the point of your post. It is a very valid point. Time for me to take my own advice and stop looking at this thread.

[Drrockso]

Seriously Nathan are you 12 or are you just a really ignorant adult.

[Disch]

http://carm.org/atheists-you-wont-find-god-that-way

This is not proof. This is just a guy quoting scripture and speculating on what it means. Again... I'm asking for physical evidence. Scripture doesn't qualify.

In fact... this link basically admits there isn't any (the whole paragraph where he talks about "not finding God under a microscope")

http://christiananswers.net/evangelism/beliefs/atheism.html

Most of this is him talking about humans are not as smart as people seem to think. At least it's that way for the first 5 or 6 paragraphs. He then gives another 2 or 3 paragraphs or rhetoric about how God is not as benevolent as people think.

He then qualifies it with... you guessed it... scripture:

A quick look at Jeremiah 9:21-24 gives the answer to this intellectual dilemma.

Again... scripture is not physical evidence.

I won't even get into the topic about what actually causes tsunamis and earthquakes.

He then says this:

Tsunamis, terrible diseases, agonizing cancers, massive earthquakes, devastating tornados, killer hurricanes, awful suffering, and death itself are very real and violent storms that should be enough to convince any thinking person that our warning is true.

Saying these things are all physical proof. But they're not. He doesn't understand what proof is. All of those things can be explained by any number of things. What makes your explanation different from mine is that my explanation is shown to be consistent and repeatable.


Moving on....

http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/do-atheists-really-believe-there-is-no-god/

This article opens with "Let us examine the biblical message." So... more scripture.

The entire article just quotes passages from the Bible and explains them. Again... "I read it in a book" is not evidence.

http://creation.mobi/trust-the-bible

Now this one. The title "Should we trust the Bible?" is very interesting to me. My instinctive answer is "no"... because, again, I live by the mantra "question everything". So I started out a little excited on this one.

Some critics doubt that we even have the original New Testament. - this is irrelevant. Even you have have the very first copy of the book ever made... the TRUE original.... it wouldn't matter. All that proves is that the Bible was written -- which we already know. It does not prove that what the Bible says is true.

He then asks the question of whether or not the original can be trusted, and responds with this:
So Jesus’ disciples would have been very capable of recording His statements accurately, and they give evidence of having done so honestly. For example, they admit certain facts which forgers probably would have left out

Yeah, or... the people just wrote a book. There are tons of books available in <insert library here> that document all sorts of fantastic tales. I could probably get my friend (who knows me personally) to write a book about me depicting me as the son of God. That doesn't make that book true.

Unless there is physical evidence to support the information contained in the book... the book itself is just that: a book. Again... "I read it in a book" is not proof.


Is there any archaeological confirmation for the Bible?

This got me excited once again.

we have many first-century non-Christian historians and writers who confirm the life and execution of Jesus:. - You know what? I'll give you this one. Without researching the writers he listed... I'll just say this point is valid.

So what does this prove? It proves that Jesus lived and was crucified. And maybe that he claimed to be the son of God, and maybe even that he convinced the people he was with that he was the son of God. But it does not prove that he actually was the son of God.

started investigating Luke’s gospel with the assumption that Luke was mistaken in many areas. But Ramsay discovered time and time again that Luke was absolutely precise about place names and the many varied titles of rulers.

So the Luke's writings in the Bible were historically accurate with regards to names of places and rulers. That's great.

So was the Great Gatsby. But of course... the Great Gatsby was fiction.

Just because some parts of the book are true does not mean all of it is true.

The Hittites were once thought to be a biblical myth, but their enormous ancient capital, Hattusa, was discovered at modern Boghazköy. Archaeology has also vindicated the war of four kings vs five in Gen. 14. and Belshazzar’s kingship in Daniel.

Yes there are lots of historical accuracies in the Bible. This is not proof of anything. I can point to just about any book of modern fiction and cherry-pick examples of how that particular book is historically accurate. That means absolutely nothing.


The rest of the page is just more scripture and irrelevant points. I'm going to stop there.


Still no compelling evidence.

[NoXzema]

you are a sinner and lack faith

This. An atheist or skeptic tends to lack faith because faith cannot be logical tends to lack reasoning.

If evidence was supposedly laid before me of a God, I would ask the validity of that evidence. I would ask why it should be considered as evidence, where it came from, etc. I cannot make the assumption that something is evidence just because someone says so.

We don't require faith that God doesn't exist... rather atheist will admit that they don't know but lean towards the opinion that one does not exist because there is not a lot of evidence to support that. You must realize that just because something doesn't have an immediate explanation, that does not mean it's a supernatural object or meaning. We are presented with a claim that a God exist, we aren't provided with adequate evidence, so we have no reason to believe that claim.

People like you continuously say that we will one day realize our sinful ways but you ignore the people who clearly don't and are glad to sink into the ground to be recycled as organic waste and fertilizer. I will certainly be one of those people unless something extraordinary happens in our era.

[MatthewRock]

Nathan, why did you create third account?

PS. I don't want my post to be considered as an off-topic, so I'll say that if someone isn't capable of understanding what evolution is, and isn't willing to check what it really is after hearing from many people about how he got it all wrong, then people who don't care about political correctness would call him fool.

[helios]

God doesn't reveal Himself to sinners and faithless people.

Do you not see the obvious problem that only the people who are willing to believe in God are able to perceive him?
If I give you a shot, it'll have an effect on you regardless of whether you believe it will or not.
If it's so obvious that God exists, shouldn't it be obvious for everyone, not just his believers?

[Daleth]

Nathan, why did you create third account?

The better question is, what happens when he runs out of 2's?

[z05DSL3A]

Using the book that you follow to justify the book that you follow is the correct book to follow just doesn't cut it with a lot of people, Atheist or not.

At the moment I would be more than happy to have cogent reasoning why the bible is the correct book and why one version of it is the correct version. It would also help if you could explain why there are many factions of christianity with differing beliefs (apart from the main one). This was my main problem when I was a christian, the lack of cogent reasoning. I was not even asking for proof, just why, but questioning didn't seem to be the done thing.

I'm not against religions, I still read up on non-theistic ones to see what I can learn from them, this thread has reminded me that I have a book on Taoism somewhere (thanks for that at least).

[ne555]

I wonder what experiment could be devised in order to obtain such prof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jFLttGjzuQ
(the apocalypse took place, those people are to be judged)
I'm called Norberto and was forced to come here... I'm an atheist
and I give a damn about seeing the Directive (CEO), I'll continue to be an atheist because I want to

[Drrockso]

Your beliefs are not more valid because you are better at defending them.

I am not so sure about that.

[RealGiganitris]

I only read the first post so I have no idea what people think but I MUST give my opinion. I fully support homosexuality, I think it's a shame people don't accept it.

"It's wrong because God said so." or "It's written in the Bible that if you're gay you got to Hell" and so on and so forth.

Got told Abraham to murder his son, God told the sons of Aaron to kill a cow, skin it, sprinkle the blood upon an altar for his pleasure and somehow got a virgin pregnant.

I think this happens in Leviticus and Mathew if you ever want to look this up.

<personal stuff>

I used to follow the bible very closely, I believed in everything. One year I noticed I was attracted to men but denied it and tried to suppress my feelings. Second year I give up suppressing everything but promised myself to keep it to myself as a huge secret. Third year did some hardcore questioning of the bible (I did question it second year but...), I decided I didn't believe in Catholicism but third year I searched for what was moral and found the answer was in the Fundamental Human Needs. That same year (at the end) I broke my promise and I told this guy. Fourth year I tell my sister, then I tell my other sister, then I tell my mom and then my dad found out the hard way. Anyways to this day he is my boyfriend. I am out to my family, a few close friends and on the internet where no information is given out that shows who I really am.
I'm a bisexual, not gay and if (you have an issue) then
{
there is no point in trying to stop it, I don't care.
Genocide is sometimes the answer but this may cause an unwanted civil war and you will have me against you so in other words you're already declared dead.
return 1;
}

</personal stuff>

(EDIT)just fixed some spelling and grammar errors.