Adoption by Homosexual Couples

[Disch]

Fredbill wrote:

Not all Christians hate gays. You're just an ignorant individual believing all the lies and propaganda that a handful of Atheists believe. Just because a few Christians are extremists doesn't mean others are.

The propaganda isn't coming from Atheists. It's coming from right-wing media and lawmakers.

Slandering gays, treating them like second-class citizens, and denying them equal rights is common practice in mainstream politics and media.

Maybe you're right and it is only the extremists that are doing that. But the extremists just happen to be the ones making the laws/news... which gives everyone else the impression that it's the norm.

[N36fSL3A]

Nathan2222 wrote:

The only marriage i know is between a biological male and a biological female

Hey everyone! A prime example of a Christian extremist!

Well then apparently you're going to hell for watching porn, and playing football. Anyone you know that had sex before marriage is going to hell as well.

[iAk3T05o]

I'm not an extremist, they can get "married", i won't stop them but that's not the marriage i know.
Thought: What do they say when it's time for "i now pronounce you as husband and wife"? Wife and wife or husband and husband.
Sex before marriage is a sin just as lying and stealing is a sin and you will go to hell if you don't repent. That is why we repentance and forgiveness because we will sin and why Jesus saved the adulterous woman. Sin is inevitable, it's what you do afterwards that matters.

[htirwin]

@Nathan222: How do you know that religious texts such as the Bible and others haven't been concocted by the real God as a test in order to see which people would follow something fishy and unreasonable under the threat of severe punishment? It could be a test of courage and wisdom; who is truly righteous enough to do the right thing even when it is not written and not do the wrong thing even when it is written? That would be a curve ball.

Kind of like that test where authority figures ordered test subjects to be electrocuted by regular people volunteering to participate in a study and they did even knowing it could kill the subject just because they were told to do it.

Anyways I think that if a God exists, just because the God exists doesn't mean I think I should follow that God. If a God worth following exists, then I expect that God to be reasonable enough that whether or not I believe the God exists, or follow a text which I cannot verify to be true, makes little or no difference to the God. Actually a God I would follow would expect me not to be so gullible.

[iAk3T05o]

Why would He test you. Some people don't know what a bible is.
You have the choice to do or not to do anything.

[AceDawg45]

Nathan2222 about what you said before about Noah:

Afterall he once destroyed everything in the world with flood except Noah, his family and the male and female of every animal and decided not to again which is why we have rainbows.

So, your saying -- what Christians are saying -- is that, to get rid of the mistake he made making the cruel and untrustworthy humans and animals, he destroyed everything, women, children, babies, just to start all over with the same a$$holes that made him mad?
Note that this is not what you said, but I went to catholic school until 4th grade, and we learned in religion class that this was the case.

EDIT:
fredbill you said not all Christians hate gays, and believe me, I know this. I have a lot of Christian friends that don't hate gays, and I do have some that don't. Sadly, I know two people who are athiest, including me. I just get really passionate about my arguments when debating...

[iAk3T05o]

He could have destroyed it completely once more but a covenant is a covenant (rainbows).
If you had all the power and they were about to kill your son, what would you do? Well, He didn't destroy the world, Jesus didn't either and He asked God not to, "forgive them for they know not what they do". If God were a human and Jesus didn't do what He did, this conversation would have ended a long time ago because we would be dead before it even started.

The only way to convince some people of His existence would be to show His angels. If we could see them, how do you think the world would be?

[N36fSL3A]

I'm not an extremist, they can get "married", i won't stop them but that's not the marriage i know.

Well from your previous posts it seems like you are trying to stop them from being married.

Thought: What do they say when it's time for "i now pronounce you as husband and wife"? Wife and wife or husband and husband.

That's culture specific. Stop trying to force your customs down other people's throats.

Sex before marriage is a sin just as lying and stealing is a sin and you will go to hell if you don't repent. That is why we repentance and forgiveness because we will sin and why Jesus saved the adulterous woman. Sin is inevitable, it's what you do afterwards that matters.

So if I decided to kill thousands of people then just ask God for forgiveness I'm good?

[iAk3T05o]

You will be severely punished if you do that, very severely.
Moses didn't enter the promised land (canaan) because he disobeyed God, he saw it but didn't enter.

[AceDawg45]

@Nathan2222 if we could see angels, almost all of history's wars would never have happened. Do you have any idea how many people died in the middle ages because Christianity??? (<-rhetorical). There would only be one religion, because there is proof of that religion to exist. Sadly, there is little to no proof of existence to any religion -- even atheism -- except for records of it that only a fraction of people have seen (in the past millennium, at least).

[z0My6Up4]

I don't think it's anyone's business other than the people doing the adoption.

[N36fSL3A]

Nathan2222 wrote:

You will be severely punished if you do that, very severely.
Moses didn't enter the promised land (canaan) because he disobeyed God, he saw it but didn't enter.

How would that make it any different from lying/stealing? You just said that you can ask God for forgiveness and all will be forgiven.

Unless you're implying that some sins are worse than others, which God himself (according to the Bible) said that all sins are just as bad as any other sin.

[Stormboy]

Why is this turning from a gender related debate to a debate of religion? To answer the original topic question, I can't bother to give a damn about what gays do. It doesn't affect me neither does it affect others in the community. All I feel that its wrong but I wouldn't bother to go and argue with them because most people are arrogant these days.
As for you Fredbill,
According to my religion (Islam), as far as I've researched and know, a sin is forgiven, yes. But not if you repeat it again and again. And it does make sense. What if you slap a person and say to him sorry and he forgives you, yet you slap him again. Do you think he will forgive you again? Well if he does, and you repeat it again, you can't expect him to forgive you the third time.

[N36fSL3A]

Stormboy wrote:

Why is this turning from a gender related debate to a debate of religion? To answer the original topic question, I can't bother to give a damn about what gays do. It doesn't affect me neither does it affect others in the community. All I feel that its wrong but I wouldn't bother to go and argue with them because most people are arrogant these days.

This is exactly how I feel.

According to my religion (Islam), as far as I've researched and know, a sin is forgiven, yes. But not if you repeat it again and again. And it does make sense. What if you slap a person and say to him sorry and he forgives you, yet you slap him again. Do you think he will forgive you again? Well if he does, and you repeat it again, you can't expect him to forgive you the third time.

It's the same with Christianity. I'm a Christian, I'm just bothered by the fact that Nathan is simply saying "I don't care, the Bible says its wrong so no one should do it".

I was trying to extract his beliefs on what God would do.

[iAk3T05o]

You can keep committing sin and your conscience will keep telling you it's bad. When it stops doing that then you know you're in trouble.
Do i have a problem with them getting married? No. Do i believe it's marriage? No. Will i stop them? No.
Do i have a problem with them adopting? Yes. Will i stop them? If i could, maybe.

[N36fSL3A]

Nathan2222 wrote:

Do i have a problem with them adopting? Yes. Will i stop them? If i could, maybe.

So you want to deny them rights because you feel that they shouldn't? Come on now, this isn't the 2nd grade playground.

[TwilightSpectre]

Fredill wrote:

So if I decided to kill thousands of people then just ask God for forgiveness I'm good?

Yes. However, the thing is, if you are the kind of person to kill thousands of people, will you honestly be asking God for fogiveness? Or, as a Christian, would you have preferred to not do the action in the first place? Of course, you do get some times when people have committed a crime, and converted to Christianity, where they asked for forgiveness. Probably the most well known examples of this are Saul / Paul from the Bible, who was persecuting Christians, God made him realize what he was doing and then became a preacher, spreading the word of God. Another example is of John Newton (the guy who wrote 'Amazing Grace'), who actually used to be a slave trader.

Stormboy wrote:

Well if he does, and you repeat it again, you can't expect him to forgive you the third time.

Yes, you can. Due to God's grace, he will forgive you over and over again. Otherwise, seriously, will anyone still be 'good enough' before a few minutes in their life have passed? Jesus says in the Bible somewhere something like 'Don't just forgive him 7 times, but more than 70 times 7 times.'

And as for 'I don't care, the Bible says its wrong so no one should do it', that is true. Just because we don't always manage to do what the Bible says doesn't mean that it should become right.

[iAk3T05o]

I could only imagine how many sins people commit a day and yet we are still alive.
He truly is merciful. Don't sin because you think He would always forgive you because even if He will, it's wrong.

[N36fSL3A]

Nathan2222 wrote:

I could only imagine how many sins people commit a day and yet we are still alive.
He truly is merciful. Don't sin because you think He would always forgive you because even if He will, it's wrong.

I thought you just said I'd be punished badly for it...

[iAk3T05o]

I didn't need to say. It's in the bible. Moses disobeyed God and his punishment was he shall see the promised land but not enter it. He will forgive but you will face the consequences.
All your sins are recorded (imagine how big that book, if it is a book, is) and you will answer to them on judgement day.