Adoption by Homosexual Couples
Nathan2222:
Nowhere. But what does that have to do with my question?
Where does it mention computers in the bible? nowhere... so why are you using one?
Where does it mention cars in the bible? nowhere... so why do you drive/ride in them?
There are lots of things in the modern world that were not discussed in the Bible. Same-sex couples are one of them.
So I ask again... where is the Bible telling you that same sex couples should not be allowed to adopt?
Nowhere. But what does that have to do with my question?
Where does it mention computers in the bible? nowhere... so why are you using one?
Where does it mention cars in the bible? nowhere... so why do you drive/ride in them?
There are lots of things in the modern world that were not discussed in the Bible. Same-sex couples are one of them.
So I ask again... where is the Bible telling you that same sex couples should not be allowed to adopt?
Did you read my post beyond the first word?
Lots of things exist that the Bible doesn't mention.
Lots of things exist that the Bible doesn't mention.
You never answered my question either, Nathan2222.
I also don't think I will reach any divine judgement since the only thing that says I will is a religious text that I doubt is a representation of what's realistic.
I also don't think I will reach any divine judgement since the only thing that says I will is a religious text that I doubt is a representation of what's realistic.
So at what point do we declare him a troll and just ignore him? He disagrees with someone, but when asked to elaborate he make useless posts until someone says something else for him to disagree with.
Good point. Well, I ask for a logical point. He ignores it. I clarify and ask that he answers accordingly. If he doesn't comply, then I will ignore him since he's not being productive and wasting my time.
There's no need to consider him a troll, just ignore him.
There's no need to consider him a troll, just ignore him.
@NoXzema
Normally I would agree, but I've had a biased view of him because he has joined Dreamincode.net and Gamedev.net which I'm part of and I see him doing the same thing here as he did there. He is the first member I've seen on those sites since I joined that actually went negative on both. After three sites I'm at troll.
Don't get me wrong, I am fully aware that members consider me a troll and a liar.
Normally I would agree, but I've had a biased view of him because he has joined Dreamincode.net and Gamedev.net which I'm part of and I see him doing the same thing here as he did there. He is the first member I've seen on those sites since I joined that actually went negative on both. After three sites I'm at troll.
Don't get me wrong, I am fully aware that members consider me a troll and a liar.
Drama is not required. The point is to prevent conflict. This isn't those other sites and this specific thread is opinion-based, no matter how close-minded or the contrary that opinion may be.
closed account (iAk3T05o)
You can't convince me any more than i can convince you. It just so happens that our generation is the first that got so bored that they decided to try same sex marriage and that them adopting a child has no effect on the child.
You believe in neither God nor the bible so there is no point.
@bhx: I have no idea why you can't just not post about me. I didn't join those forums to impress people like you or behave in a way you would consider right. You have a view on me. You don't know the view i've had on you since your first reply in my topic on gamedev.net. I don't go around telling everything i know which forum you are on.
You found out i joined dreamincode < 3 days ago and you behave as if you were the first person i sent a message to when i joined.
You sit down and look for me everywhere. Perhaps you should program a software that specifically searches for my name.
What i post in one forum is for that forum . . .
. . . why i am replying to you.
@noxema: there is no place in the bible that says same sex couples shouldn't adopt just like there is no record of a same sex marriage for people that lived more than 5 centuries, they never got bored and decided to marry their fellow man.
It's just my view on it, i don't accept it. It would be awesome if i got a message telling me same sex or transexual marriage is accepted but that won't happen and until one of you can convince me or i get that message, this remains my opinion.
You believe in neither God nor the bible so there is no point.
@bhx: I have no idea why you can't just not post about me. I didn't join those forums to impress people like you or behave in a way you would consider right. You have a view on me. You don't know the view i've had on you since your first reply in my topic on gamedev.net. I don't go around telling everything i know which forum you are on.
You found out i joined dreamincode < 3 days ago and you behave as if you were the first person i sent a message to when i joined.
You sit down and look for me everywhere. Perhaps you should program a software that specifically searches for my name.
What i post in one forum is for that forum . . .
. . . why i am replying to you.
@noxema: there is no place in the bible that says same sex couples shouldn't adopt just like there is no record of a same sex marriage for people that lived more than 5 centuries, they never got bored and decided to marry their fellow man.
It's just my view on it, i don't accept it. It would be awesome if i got a message telling me same sex or transexual marriage is accepted but that won't happen and until one of you can convince me or i get that message, this remains my opinion.
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You do not understand... the Bible means nothing to me. It's just text on paper. It has no validity. It's the equivalent of Hamlet to me.
| Nathan2222 wrote: |
|---|
| You can't convince me any more than i can convince you. |
Convincing you would be nice, but it's more that I'm trying to understand your thought process. You said you opposed same-sex couples adopting, but I still don't understand why.
Yes, yes, I know the Bible has no record of any same-sex marriages, but that doesn't speak to anything regarding same-sex couples adopting.
| It just so happens that our generation is the first that got so bored that they decided to try same sex marriage |
There are a few things about this statement that simply aren't true.
1) Marriage isn't about "boredom". It's [more often than not] about love. Maybe you've never met any same-sex couples... but the general notion is that they genuinely love each other. Maybe if you met some of these people you'd understand. Or maybe you wouldn't... I honestly don't know.
2) Our generation is hardly the first. This has been brought up in the past as well. And the [recorded] history of homosexual relationships spans for thousands of years. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_homosexuality ).
| It would be awesome if i got a message telling me same sex or transexual marriage is accepted but that won't happen |
Yes, but did you ever get a message that said it wasn't accepted? This is a respin on my earlier question as to why you are rejecting the notion. Just because there is no record of it does not mean it is not allowed.
You are forbidding marriage/adoption based on religious grounds... but you have yet to explain where in your religion it says they're forbidden. That's all I'm asking for.
I don't get why you guys are arguing with an ignorant extremist you aren't going to get anywhere.
Bloody fuck. I can't tell if Nathan is really that far removed from reality or if he's some sort of augmented troll, genetically engineered to piss everyone off.
@Nathan. Yes. All I saw that was on point was this:
That doesn't explain why it's your view, which is what I'm asking.
If you hold a viewpoint that is harmful to others, and you don't have a reason to hold said viewpoint, wouldn't it make sense to reconsider?
@ Everyone else:
Can you guys knock it off? I'm trying to hold a conversation with Nathan here and having you guys go on about how he's a troll when he's just expressing an opinion different from yours is not helping.
| It's just my view on it, i don't accept it. |
That doesn't explain why it's your view, which is what I'm asking.
If you hold a viewpoint that is harmful to others, and you don't have a reason to hold said viewpoint, wouldn't it make sense to reconsider?
@ Everyone else:
Can you guys knock it off? I'm trying to hold a conversation with Nathan here and having you guys go on about how he's a troll when he's just expressing an opinion different from yours is not helping.
You're right disch. Nathan, I'm sorry. I've been overly harsh on you, and I was lashing out due to stress in my personal life. That was (clearly) wrong of me.
closed account (iAk3T05o)
I hope my view doesn't seem harmful. That's the last thing i want to seem as to anyone.
I know some things that exist now didn't exist then but don't you think something as controversial as same sex marriage would have occured somewhere in the bible. It's too unnatural not to have occured and for the fact that i only know this, "God had created man but realised he would become lonely and in need of a companion so He caused him to fall into a deep sleep, then he took one of his ribs and made woman".
When did we start companionship with man?
Certainly God could have made another man as a companion but he made woman, a companion for man.
I know some things that exist now didn't exist then but don't you think something as controversial as same sex marriage would have occured somewhere in the bible. It's too unnatural not to have occured and for the fact that i only know this, "God had created man but realised he would become lonely and in need of a companion so He caused him to fall into a deep sleep, then he took one of his ribs and made woman".
When did we start companionship with man?
Certainly God could have made another man as a companion but he made woman, a companion for man.
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Well, unfortunately your views are harmful. Not you personally, but the views them selves are kinda setting the USA back about 50 years. And not for the better.
Your rights stop when they infringe on someone else. Disagree with gay marriage all you want. That's fine. If it's baseless, so be it. But keep it to your self and people that think like you. Not in law. Especially not in a country where the sovereign power declares "... nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." Equal Protection. Marriage, in the USA is a legal agreement. So under law, bans on gay marriage is unconstitutional. And in the same vein, I'd say adoption should be covered too.
Your rights stop when they infringe on someone else. Disagree with gay marriage all you want. That's fine. If it's baseless, so be it. But keep it to your self and people that think like you. Not in law. Especially not in a country where the sovereign power declares "... nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." Equal Protection. Marriage, in the USA is a legal agreement. So under law, bans on gay marriage is unconstitutional. And in the same vein, I'd say adoption should be covered too.
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| I hope my view doesn't seem harmful. That's the last thing i want to seem as to anyone. |
When you say you would prevent someone from doing something they really want to do (in this case, adopting a child and/or getting married) -- when the act itself is harmless... I consider that harmful.
| but don't you think something as controversial as same sex marriage would have occured somewhere in the bible |
Not necessarily. There's plenty of modern-day controversial topics that are not discussed in the bible. Such as marijuana legalization, environmental protection, economic issues, militaristic issues, etc, etc.
The Bible cannot possibly outline what is right/wrong for every single detailed topic.
| It's too unnatural not to have occured |
Homosexuality is definitely natural. And by "natural" I mean "exists in nature":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
This is not merely my opinion, but is undeniable, provable fact. It has been repeatedly observed and documented by numerous independent parties.
So maybe your definition of "natural" differs from mine?
| woman |
The emphasis on the 'wo' here suggests to me that you are alluding to a old myth regarding the etymology of the word "woman".
"woman" is not spelled similarly to "man" because of any biblical reason. In fact... in Old English the words for man/woman were wēr/wīfmann. As you can see, they are nothing alike (apart from starting with 'w').
They weren't popularly called man/woman until the 1200's.
Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman#Etymology
Again, this is provable, documented fact... not merely my opinion. Just FYI.