what to learn how to make a game? here is some advice

[3pj6b7Xj]

The original post was some what mis-leading and I didn't use the right words to describe the message I was trying to get out, so a few people become annoyed and angered, understandable so to reply and address the issues that were brought up, I decided to make a youtube video and even included my 2d side scroller in the windows gdi as an example, all very positive talks, nothing negative, so I suggest you watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyk0aGt2K04

I do understand the original post was some what arrogant, so I hope the video clears things up! :)

[salem c]

> don't use the easy stuff, start from scratch
Did you start with assembler before moving up to C++ ?

Do you use assembler at all now?

[z05DSL3A]

Did you start with assembler before moving up to C++ ?

Do you use assembler at all now?

Yes and yes...ish.

I also, when I started looking at MFC soon put it on hold and took a few months to lean Win32 because I was not happy with the automagic background happenings.

I'm one of those people that like to get to know how the low level stuff works at least in general before moving up to the more 'Lego' side of programming.

I know there are people like going the other way, or even ignoring the low level stuff altogether...

Each to his own, there is NO right way for all, just the right way for you.

[Duthomhas]

So... your advice is to not use tools designed for game programming;

You say that people ought to roll everything themselves instead.



That’s the dumbest advice I have seen here in quite a while.

[Ganado]

I mean, calling it "advice" I think is the misleading part here. It could be a valid opinion that mrfaosfx could argue for, but it's a bit arrogant to call it advice.

"Why waste all this time when you can just use Construct2d and not write all this stuff?"

My counter to this is: We only have so long to live. A lot of people don't want to waste years learning things that are already solved problems. If you want to be someone like John Carmack, and enjoy working on everything from assembly to dr.racket scripts for VR, go ahead, that would be amazing.

But I don't think we can all be John Carmack. There's nothing wrong with using a game engine. Programming -- even just game programming -- is way too broad of a subject for the vast majority of people to be experts of every aspect in.

There is so much that goes into a game, well beyond low-level graphics and event handling. It depends on what your personal interests are, and what you enjoy.

[George P]

Doing everything from scratch. If one is using the Win32 API they aren't doing it from scratch, the API is one huge tool/set of libraries for using Windows features without reinventing them.

From scratch could be equated with writing the machine code directly, without the use of any library or tools such as a compiler.

Lotsa luck with that.

If the OP enjoys tinkering around doing the low-level tasks, more power to him.

I'll use any approach that helps me learn to be a better, more efficient programmer; to create programs (not just games) I have grand dreams of making.

Regarding games.....no matter how they are created, if they are not fun to play, and keep replaying, all the effort is wasted.

[zapshe]

Different people find different things they like about programming. For you, it may be coding graphics from scratch yourself, but I'm sure something like trying to make code that outputs to your console from scratch may not be your cup of tea. What you feel is valid, but saying it should be applied everywhere would be a stretch. Someone coded it once and made it into a library because it was hard work and time consuming.

If your son wants to use the easy way, then I think that's fine.

BTW, guys here ripped this advice to shreds xD!

[3pj6b7Xj]

You guys understood wrong ... I'm not saying you should completely do everything from scratch. My message was if an individual is interested in the foundation that makes the 2d game work, then they should pursue that route before they spoil themselves, IF they want to learn the more technical aspects of the game. I made a video that sheds a bit of light.

[George P]

they should pursue that route before they spoil themselves

Heh, so you are the only person here who knows the One True Way to program games, eh?

No, we understand what you said very well. And in my case had quite the laugh.

[George P]

And on a less snarky note:

I started out using the higher-level libraries since I wanted to get whatever I was working on to be completed sometime in my life-time.

Mashing around with those libraries made me curious what they were doing. I began to investigate what they were simplifying.

I learned more that way than I would have starting out with dealing with all the minutiae and details of making sprites dance around on the screen and other graphical stuff.

If I had gone the route you suggest, mrfaosfx, I would have given up in frustration rather quickly instead of staying with it.

[3pj6b7Xj]

If I had gone the route you suggest, mrfaosfx, I would have given up in frustration rather quickly instead of staying with it.

That's a shame … that you quit so easily if you are frustrated … more often than not we programmers encounter bugs that are literally frustrating to the point that they take hours to fix, some of them don't even make any sense at all .. you look at your code, everything looks right but for some reason nothing works and then after several hours you realized you used "=" instead of "==" and you bang your head on the wall … with an attitude like that furry guy, you won't get very far because it demonstrates you haven't been met with a real challenge yet in your programming endeavors and if at any point it becomes too frustrating, you will quit .. that's not very reassuring buddy.

Bottom line is, everybody is wired differently and we all learn different ways … for me programming is a hobby and a challenge and I enjoy figuring things out, how they work, why they work that way and what I can possibly do to improve it.

It is the difference in buying a cake in a box at Walmart, adding water to the batter sticking it in the oven and you're done OR actually mixing the cake from scratch, knowing exactly what ingredients to put in it, what role they play and watch your cake bake and best part is you get to eat it and it was your own damn hard work.

They say life is better with choices and everyone has plenty of choices, up to you to choose how long you want your journey to be or if it will end quickly because your cup is already full.

[George P]

Ah, the arrogance comes back, trying to shame someone that doesn't follow your holy writ of The Only Way to do things.

Not a chance.

[3pj6b7Xj]

if that's what you want to believe, that is your opinion … I don't believe I am being arrogant, just sharing a view, not everyone is the same.

[George P]

It isn't just my opinion, everyone else who bothered to respond said much the same thing. Some were more polite than me.

You sure took some time to come around from "DO IT MY WAY, OR ELSE!" to "well, everyone can do things differently."

[3pj6b7Xj]

It isn't just my opinion, everyone else who bothered to respond said much the same thing. Some were more polite than me.

You sure took some time to come around from "DO IT MY WAY, OR ELSE!" to "well, everyone can do things differently."

wrong … yours wasn't an opinion it was a my way is the best way because as you so pointed my if you would do it my way, you would have given up long ago .. what I see here is that you aren't very open minded about the topic and you are just instigating … I'm being as polite as I can be.


Also, I never shamed you down man … who is the one who said they would quit because it would become too frustrating … YOU and I encouraged you to challenge yourself instead of settling for the easy way … this isn't about my way or the high way not even close … this was a post that was MY opinion and my advice for people who wanted to create a game, I simply suggested that an individual should start from the very beginning and perhaps they would understand the architecture of what makes a game work better … seriously dude, there are books out there that talk about this stuff … this isn't just my point of view a lot of people prefer the more technical details.

I don't know if you've heard of the microwave class example where they speak of a microwave and a person and the person doesn't care how the microwave works or what a button does when they presss, they just want the microwave to work .. this is called abstraction, part of objected oriented programming basically where you don't concern yourself with the inner details of a class implementation and then of course there is that one individual who does want to know how the microwave works and perhaps wants to take a peek inside to see if he/she can understand it better.

For example in C++ we have the string class that works just fine, I use c++ strings all the time. However, at one point I did write my very own string class just as you pointed in a previous post … you tried something and then you took a stab at trying to make something of your own to see if you could understand it better.

It pains me that every reply to you … you think I'm coming after you or something … that's not the case.

I have been on this forum helping people from time to time but never have I met such hostile replies … in fact there have been posts where people have corrected me and offered good positive constructive feedback on a better way to do something … but nothing along the lines of "this is the dumbest advice I've seen here" these are just the words of a very unprofessional person.

And you pretty much said your way is the best way,

If I had gone the route you suggest, mrfaosfx, I would have given up in frustration rather quickly instead of staying with it.

And you say I'm arrogant....smh.

Nothing good came of this post and I am recommended the moderators LOCK it right now … any further replies from the looks of it, will be just instigation and pointing of fingers and it's really getting us no where, I'm not here to fight with anyone.

[z05DSL3A]

I sometimes think 'why did I stop posting here for so long?' and then a thread like this comes along and slaps me back to my senses.

I posted the following a while ago...I sometime think some of the regulars here could do with watching the video to remind themselves of where beginners are coming from and to think how they relate to 'bit 3':

8-Bits of Advice for New Programmers (The stuff they don't teach you in school!)
http://www.cplusplus.com/forum/beginner/251994/#msg1109352

[George P]

In the words of Henry Jones Sr., "you left just as you were becoming interesting."

[Ganado]

moderators

Ha, good one.

[z05DSL3A]

We are all moderators, we can hit the report button safe in the knowledge that it will change colour.

[George P]

Grey Wolf wrote:

We are all moderators

Some people are more eager to moderate than others, I'd even opine over-moderate, though nicely not all the time. It comes in spurts.