You being a programmer, what does penmanship mean to you
| Widen your horizons perhaps? |
We were talking about programming, a wide topic, and then you talked about a specific aspect of human interface devices, which is a broad topic in itself. Penmanship is also very specific, as it only relates to the quality of handwriting. Realistically, there's no direct relationship between penmanship and programming in general.
If you want to say I'm narrow minded, you'd also be saying it's narrow minded to think "porn" and not think "programming" - just because programming can be used to create animated porn.
A wise man once said, "They were so open minded their brains fell out." ~ Youtube Comment
Yep, Apple pen software/hardware and MS Surface equivalents to name just 2 insignificant companies and their totally irrelevant products, just do it all with magic.
Why would they bother employing programmers when faith and YouTube quotes, are all they need.
A graphics designer in a smock with a bucket full of good ol' wooden handle brushes to paint the screen is all ya need.
And why would Apple et al ask a new programmer looking for a job in that field what their thoughts on penmanship are. Nah, they'd want to get the inside running to bring them up to speed from the latest fountain of knowledge trained at the university of YouTube clips.
Why would they bother employing programmers when faith and YouTube quotes, are all they need.
A graphics designer in a smock with a bucket full of good ol' wooden handle brushes to paint the screen is all ya need.
And why would Apple et al ask a new programmer looking for a job in that field what their thoughts on penmanship are. Nah, they'd want to get the inside running to bring them up to speed from the latest fountain of knowledge trained at the university of YouTube clips.
Well, if those programmers want to come over and give their opinions on penmanship, they're free to do so. Either way, it would not invalidate anything anyone here has said.
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Maybe one is here.
Truly, is that one of your "either or's" or an "and"?
Good for me, I haven't invalidated anything other than narrow-mindedness.
PS: AI doesn't seem to have attracted the same denialist approach. Maybe first year drop outs of a tech school don't go into that?
Truly, is that one of your "either or's" or an "and"?
Good for me, I haven't invalidated anything other than narrow-mindedness.
PS: AI doesn't seem to have attracted the same denialist approach. Maybe first year drop outs of a tech school don't go into that?
| Why would they bother employing programmers when faith and YouTube quotes, are all they need. |
Your pointless argument aside, the comment was hilarious. The video itself was showing people who when asked if a white, medium-height, male could identify as a tall Asian woman, and you see so many people saying yes. So that's what that comment was referring to, since people are trying to become inclusive of people who "identify" as things they clearly aren't and try to enforce it as fact rather than having it as their own personal feelings.
I also find it hilarious when "transwomen" compete in women's sports and completely dominate. In my state, I can literally just say I feel like a woman and go dominate women sports:
| The transgender athletes will be allowed to compete in sanctioned sports “in accordance with his or her gender identity irrespective to the gender listed on the student’s birth certificate,” the (removed) said in a statement posted on its website. While no medical treatment is required for students to participate with their identified gender, the athletes must gain eligibility through a detailed three-step process. |
And the 3 step process is not anything special. Legally, it's possible for me to just beat the crap out of women in every sport. I don't know how this would go over if someone tried, assuming no one already has. Just a small detour from the original topic.
Sorry to shatter any dreams but the brain-fallout comeback is an old one, possibly even predating modern computing, definitely pre-dating even the rudimentary introductory version of YouTube. The saying probably originated in some passive aggressive forum like Readers Digest.
Transgender issues, despite possible connections with AI or more broadly penmanship that I don't get, are generally argued at the margin and more often than not tabloid press significant or just plain intolerant-divisive.
I have only met and worked with a few (known) transgender people and I am prepared to accept they are genuine fellow humans making their way in the world and not just operating at the margin with identity politics motives to demand entry to some or other binary-sex lavatory or fake-excel at sport.
Who gives a rat's about competitive sport? Best drug wins, that's all - big deal.
There again maybe I misunderstood your social conscience and you want to divert the subject to penismanship. Sure as hell takes the heat off me if you do.
Transgender issues, despite possible connections with AI or more broadly penmanship that I don't get, are generally argued at the margin and more often than not tabloid press significant or just plain intolerant-divisive.
I have only met and worked with a few (known) transgender people and I am prepared to accept they are genuine fellow humans making their way in the world and not just operating at the margin with identity politics motives to demand entry to some or other binary-sex lavatory or fake-excel at sport.
Who gives a rat's about competitive sport? Best drug wins, that's all - big deal.
There again maybe I misunderstood your social conscience and you want to divert the subject to penismanship. Sure as hell takes the heat off me if you do.
| Who gives a rat's about competitive sport? Best drug wins, that's all - big deal. |
Many of these issues go down to the highschool level (highschool "trans" athletes), I doubt many 16 year olds are doing drugs for athletic reasons. Many are not even old enough to drink, but old enough to say they want to change their gender.
| I have only met and worked with a few (known) transgender people |
Some of them just look weird as heck - like those people who get plastic surgery and then look like a lizard. Sometimes, it plainly looks like a dude with a wig. I don't hate them anymore than I hate those who get plastic surgery, I just think, "Why?"
| generally argued at the margin and more often than not tabloid press significant or just plain intolerant-divisive |
Maybe where you are, but they're not even legally bound to tell someone they're dating that they're transgender. There was a joke I heard where a man hooks up with a chick, and they have sex. Once they finish he rolls over, and get's a smoke and sees a picture on the counter with a man. He asks who he is, and after a bit of back and forth, she says, "me before the surgery."
It's amazing how many laws and regulations have been passed in favor of arguments dumb enough to make Socrates come back to life, look around, and drink poison again.
https://babylonbee.com/news/motorcycle-that-identifies-as-bicycle-sets-world-cycling-record
They often use the defense, "They're trying to protect women's sports from women!" Which is just the most loaded b*llsh*t phrase I ever heard. The sheer stupidity I encounter whenever I'm at college is astounding. I might write a story on it one day.
| Maybe where you are, but they're not even legally bound to tell someone they're dating that they're transgender. |
Again, it's a situation at the margin which makes good publicity and not much more.
There's nothing to stop you from asking for any proposed (or existing!) partner(s) of yours to provide a chromosome sample on introduction or at this late date in your perambulations. It's probably a bridge too far to demand it though and definitely a long stretch to believe you'll every get the information as mandated by some future and long overdue law.
A simple test in all this is, what would you do or say if a close friend, member of your family, colleague or young/mature-even child turned up and said they were trans? My guess is most people, not all, would take a non-reactionary, non red-neck approach - not to say you would. Most people wouldn't be swayed by the marginal cases and forget-in-10-seconds media/politics/sensationalism.
Best just observe, inform yourself, discuss and make up your own mind. The herd mentality here is very dangerous. Ask hitler and the pink stars he handed out.
And let's not forget, in chromosomic-law world, you might have to provide your chromosomes and who knows what they would reveal?
| But relationships between consenting adults would be part of the consideration |
I can consent to sex and find out they hide from me that they had HIV. If there's information about someone physically that would turn a "yes" into a "no", you don't think that would important?
| Again, it's a situation at the margin which makes good publicity and not much more. |
I don't know if you're in the U.S., particularly a population dense area, but these issues can be seen. I try to ignore them, but they sometimes make their way into my life. Particularly true in college, where everyone wants to shove their existence everywhere.
| A simple test in all this is, what would you do or say if a close friend, member of your family, colleague or young/mature-even child turned up and said they were trans? |
I'd say, "alright." I'm sure what you're expecting. I don't have an emotional state for them deciding they're trans. Of course, however, if they say, "I'm trans therefore..." and continue to spout some nonsense, like perhaps wanting to join a female sports team when they're male (or after surgery while still having male advantageous attributes)... Then maybe there's an issue? *rolls eyes* I would have laughed if it wasn't pathetic when a transgender woman said she won because she "worked [her] butt off", as if the other athletes weren't. Literally setting world records in women's sports and it's because they worked real hard?
| The herd mentality here is very dangerous |
Me not wanting to bang someone who use to have a d*ck is herd mentality?
| And let's not forget, in chromosomic-law world, you might have to provide your chromosomes and who knows what they would reveal? |
What? This isn't even close to anything I was talking about. Sports, relationships, scholarships, and perhaps a few other small areas are the only times I see this being applicable. Manual labor jobs are a maybe, but it's doubtful they care what gender you are/aren't/pretend to be as long as you can get the job done. I don't see why "chromosomic-law" would come into effect due to needing to know one's biological/at-birth gender in a few cases. A birth certificate would be more than enough.
In some countries it is mandatory for a HIV infected person to notify sexual partners (and others) their HIV status.
I'm not, and didn't say ignore any or all of it. Hence, "Best just observe, inform yourself, discuss and make up your own mind". The US is a bastion of democracy, diversity and tolerance, not like the UK, as we all know.
Your choice of bangee and their otherwise expunged anatomy is yours - spare us the ugly details. Bang who you like AFAIAC - there's a couple of billion at least doing it as we write - just don't frighten the horses, or whatever the expression is.
We are talking about consenting adults in a democratic bastion. We are not talking about rape or other abuse.
And to make it clear, none of that is remotely relevant to what I meant by herd mentality.
Herd mentality is just that - following the herd and not thinking or acting as an individual - collective religious damnation condemning people is a good example of un-intelligent herd mentality serving no useful purpose when peaceful co-existence is a better way. None of which means you have to cohabit with anybody you don't want to regardless of past, present or future surgeries they might contemplate.
And you don't have to fall under the 'bus of identity politics'.
That comment of yours led me to think, incorrectly by the sound of it, that you wanted mandatory chromosome declarations to be provided. Let's leave that because it is apparent you are sensitive to having yours tested and validated beyond the claim made on your birth certificate, a very contentious document in this modern day and age indeed, where trans people can legally change their gender as they (rightly) see fit. (I would make a concession to anyone advocating the careful administration and execution of this apparently irreversible change with all it entails, for minors.)
I'm not, and didn't say ignore any or all of it. Hence, "Best just observe, inform yourself, discuss and make up your own mind". The US is a bastion of democracy, diversity and tolerance, not like the UK, as we all know.
Your choice of bangee and their otherwise expunged anatomy is yours - spare us the ugly details. Bang who you like AFAIAC - there's a couple of billion at least doing it as we write - just don't frighten the horses, or whatever the expression is.
We are talking about consenting adults in a democratic bastion. We are not talking about rape or other abuse.
And to make it clear, none of that is remotely relevant to what I meant by herd mentality.
Herd mentality is just that - following the herd and not thinking or acting as an individual - collective religious damnation condemning people is a good example of un-intelligent herd mentality serving no useful purpose when peaceful co-existence is a better way. None of which means you have to cohabit with anybody you don't want to regardless of past, present or future surgeries they might contemplate.
And you don't have to fall under the 'bus of identity politics'.
| they're not even legally bound to tell someone they're dating that they're transgender |
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Who's reporting zapshe? Must be an intolerant and undemocratic person. Probably someone from the UK.
| In some countries it is mandatory for a HIV infected person to notify sexual partners (and others) their HIV status. |
Exactly my point. There are things that are deemed important enough that when you're with someone they should know about it - I think being a transgender (having had a sex change) should be one of those things. It's only logical that a physical change like that be known to your partner before going further.
OK, so that's what you want which seems to contradict your objection to 'chromosomic law'. Let's say we misunderstood each other.
What about people who have had a sex change and only want partners who have had one (or several?) too? Does that mean you should declare?
I reckon you'll object, but what are you hiding?
What happens if the sex change is the result of a crime, or an accident.
At what stage of the proceedings is the validation required and who validates it? What about people who are morally/religously(?) bound not to have sex until married.
What about your prospective partner who you want to be validated if they are not having the change for a couple of weeks? Can you wait that long?
What happens if you decide to have a sex change in the future - or worse still half way through your first meeting/get together?
These are all questions you need to address before getting the law changed. Beware of the unintended consequences.
What about people who have had a sex change and only want partners who have had one (or several?) too? Does that mean you should declare?
I reckon you'll object, but what are you hiding?
What happens if the sex change is the result of a crime, or an accident.
At what stage of the proceedings is the validation required and who validates it? What about people who are morally/religously(?) bound not to have sex until married.
What about your prospective partner who you want to be validated if they are not having the change for a couple of weeks? Can you wait that long?
What happens if you decide to have a sex change in the future - or worse still half way through your first meeting/get together?
These are all questions you need to address before getting the law changed. Beware of the unintended consequences.
| what you want which seems to contradict your objection to 'chromosomic law' |
I don't see why people would need to specify their gender if they don't want to. Obviously there are always cases where the information may be needed, but in that case they should know that they're expected to reveal their gender. If trans, they would say "trans woman" or "trans man". Seems logical to me, and if someone lies,
| What about people who have had a sex change and only want partners who have had one (or several?) too? Does that mean you should declare? |
Uhh.. Not particularly a situation that's compatible with the idea. They'd both ideally reveal to their partner before things progress that they're trans or not (if asked if they're trans and they aren't). They either accept each other or they don't. I don't think it would be ethical to keep it from each other. I saw a movie once about a guy who's girlfriend was "testing" him by telling him she was born a male. The whole movie he's trying to figure out if she was lying and figure out his own feelings. In the end, she was just lying, it was just a pointless movie. She kept saying, "Love has no gender," even though our brains decide "love" and our brains are usually wired for the opposite sex.
| What happens if the sex change is the result of a crime, or an accident. |
I don't think that's how sex changes work.
| At what stage of the proceedings is the validation required and who validates it? |
In my own mind, before physically intimate contact would be ideal. Perhaps there's an argument for simply before sexual contact.
| What about people who are morally/religously(?) bound not to have sex until married. |
Then they'll be dating for a while, and it's only right not to waste someone's time by concealing information that you know could be a deal breaker yet you keep it hidden for extended periods. Similar to dating someone and not telling them about your HIV status because you don't want them to change their minds about you. Again, ideally they'd be legally bound to let you know in a timely manner, but laws in this regard can be tough to make and tougher to enforce.
| What about your prospective partner who you want to be validated if they are not having the change for a couple of weeks? Can you wait that long? |
Not sure what you mean by this one. If someone is going to get a sex change, they're likely not someone I'd see romantically to begin with because they'd be male. If I'm dating a woman who becomes male, that would be clearly obvious to me when I see them.
| What happens if you decide to have a sex change in the future - or worse still half way through your first meeting/get together? |
That's fine? No rules about this. Once they see you after the sex change, it's not like you can hide it. If you want to let them know beforehand, that's you. Once the change occurs, if by some tunnel vision or blindness they don't realize, they should inform the partner.
| These are all questions you need to address before getting the law changed. Beware of the unintended consequences. |
The law would be similar to how someone would let a partner know they are HIV positive, but probably looser.
I don't see how stylus or other handwriting programs relate to penmanship.
I can code an OCR that does fine with hand-written words; Ive done it, and its tedious but not challenging (thanks to the giants who have gone before). Its a little harder if you have it adapt to the person by having them write a few specific things to train from, but even that is just a basic backprop ANN on the side of your OCR engine.
I can't write such that anyone but me can read it (security thru obscurity, defined?).
they are not related.
and, I routinely use those stupid pen and pad program / devices to sign my name if nothing else. They work fine, even though my penmanship is at best 3/10.
I can code an OCR that does fine with hand-written words; Ive done it, and its tedious but not challenging (thanks to the giants who have gone before). Its a little harder if you have it adapt to the person by having them write a few specific things to train from, but even that is just a basic backprop ANN on the side of your OCR engine.
I can't write such that anyone but me can read it (security thru obscurity, defined?).
they are not related.
and, I routinely use those stupid pen and pad program / devices to sign my name if nothing else. They work fine, even though my penmanship is at best 3/10.
That's because you're a mental midget, jonnin, not like our resident genius over there. God, don't you feel smarter already having them around?
| What happens if the sex change is the result of a crime, or an accident. I don't think that's how sex changes work. |
I have just found a (reliable or otherwise) snippet indicating there are cases of this happening https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_man under 'Sexual violence'
| If someone is going to get a sex change, they're likely not someone I'd see romantically to begin with because they'd be male. |
Two points:
- not all people contemplating transition are male
- why should the law just be written for male partners. eg you?
| If I'm dating a woman who becomes male, that would be clearly obvious to me when I see them. |
These sort of considerations just show the impropriety/unethical nature of any such law(s). It is not a democratic governments role to pander to the anxieties, biases and prejudices of people, even students. That only happens in anti-democracies like the UK. How do you think helios would feel if such a law was imposed on her?
| I don't see how stylus or other handwriting programs relate to penmanship. |