Circumcision is for dicks
Excuse the pun of this title (I couldn't resist) and please note that I mean absolutely no disrespect to the Muslim or Jewish cultures but would merely like to table an issue that I believe needs some discussion.
Currently both the Jewish and Islamic community engage in the practice of infant male circumcision which I think should be banned on the basis that, that infant male was unable to give permission to his parents. Furthermore if that infant grows up and rejects the Jewish or Islam religion then there is no real reversal of the circumcision procedure.
In modern medicine they do have penis reconstructive surgery but that is still far from the real thing and besides that the procedure costs like an arm and a leg (something which is not covered by medical insurance as it falls under cosmetic surgery ...)
I personally was circumcised when I was 6~7 years old and still remember how I cried (the tears rolled down my cheeks) when my mom told me what they were going to do to me.
At the time she told me that they were doing it for medical/health reasons which was the usual myth promoted back in the time by a religiously motivated society.
Later on in life (when I was much older) I learned that this medical/health reasons are all moot (ie. you have many other cultures like Chinese and Europeans that do not practices circumcision as a norm and have no related epidemic in those places as a result).
In actual fact circumcision reduces a males sexual stimulation and pleasure by quite a significant percentage - so why on earth would any male want to do that to himself. Personally I regret having it done to me.
Clearly I was unable to stop this being done to me when I was a child and even if I did give consent that should be as useless as the consent a child can give an adult to have sex with them.
Basically on that same principal a child's decision can be strongly/unfairly influenced is the same reason we also should not accept a child decision to proceed with this.
My stance on this is that male circumcision should only be permitted on males who are of legal age - this way we can ensure it is the individuals own choice.
What does members from this site say about this?
Currently both the Jewish and Islamic community engage in the practice of infant male circumcision which I think should be banned on the basis that, that infant male was unable to give permission to his parents. Furthermore if that infant grows up and rejects the Jewish or Islam religion then there is no real reversal of the circumcision procedure.
In modern medicine they do have penis reconstructive surgery but that is still far from the real thing and besides that the procedure costs like an arm and a leg (something which is not covered by medical insurance as it falls under cosmetic surgery ...)
I personally was circumcised when I was 6~7 years old and still remember how I cried (the tears rolled down my cheeks) when my mom told me what they were going to do to me.
At the time she told me that they were doing it for medical/health reasons which was the usual myth promoted back in the time by a religiously motivated society.
Later on in life (when I was much older) I learned that this medical/health reasons are all moot (ie. you have many other cultures like Chinese and Europeans that do not practices circumcision as a norm and have no related epidemic in those places as a result).
In actual fact circumcision reduces a males sexual stimulation and pleasure by quite a significant percentage - so why on earth would any male want to do that to himself. Personally I regret having it done to me.
Clearly I was unable to stop this being done to me when I was a child and even if I did give consent that should be as useless as the consent a child can give an adult to have sex with them.
Basically on that same principal a child's decision can be strongly/unfairly influenced is the same reason we also should not accept a child decision to proceed with this.
My stance on this is that male circumcision should only be permitted on males who are of legal age - this way we can ensure it is the individuals own choice.
What does members from this site say about this?
| At the time she told me that they were doing it for medical/health reasons which was the usual myth promoted back in the time by a religiously motivated society. |
| In actual fact circumcision reduces a males sexual stimulation and pleasure by quite a significant percentage |
| Personally I regret having it done to me. |
| My stance on this is that male circumcision should only be permitted on males who are of legal age - this way we can ensure it is the individuals own choice. |
> Currently both the Jewish and Islamic community engage in the practice
it was quite a surprise to learn that a big portion of yankilanders do it too, but not for religious reasons
instead using medical (90% of their men are defective), hygiene (cleaning a wound is easier, it seems), cosmetic (dunno, not excited by my own dick), etc
> If it bothers you so much that you felt the need to write this post then you
> must be an incredibly content person
if it bothers him, it bother him
go cut off your left pinky toe
> I do think the practice of circumcision as a standard procedure that's
> performed indiscriminately should stop, though.
¿why? it may upgrade the stimulation and you're a pussy if complain about being done to you, ¿right?
I'm glad that one of the first thing the apostles did was to discontinue the practice
that and pork eating
it was quite a surprise to learn that a big portion of yankilanders do it too, but not for religious reasons
instead using medical (90% of their men are defective), hygiene (cleaning a wound is easier, it seems), cosmetic (dunno, not excited by my own dick), etc
> If it bothers you so much that you felt the need to write this post then you
> must be an incredibly content person
if it bothers him, it bother him
go cut off your left pinky toe
> I do think the practice of circumcision as a standard procedure that's
> performed indiscriminately should stop, though.
¿why? it may upgrade the stimulation and you're a pussy if complain about being done to you, ¿right?
I'm glad that one of the first thing the apostles did was to discontinue the practice
that and pork eating
| it may upgrade the stimulation |
| you're a pussy if complain about being done to you, ¿right? |
One fundamental right is that of the physical integrity.
Circumcision is clearly a violent act against a person. Not only boys but also girls are affected by this criminal act. That it is done to the defenseless is certainly not a surprise. And it's very likely that they don't stop at this point of violence.
If there is a medical reason. Well, they should be able to tell what it is and why there was no other choice. Which is extreme unlikely.
Circumcision is clearly a violent act against a person. Not only boys but also girls are affected by this criminal act. That it is done to the defenseless is certainly not a surprise. And it's very likely that they don't stop at this point of violence.
If there is a medical reason. Well, they should be able to tell what it is and why there was no other choice. Which is extreme unlikely.
| ne555 wrote: |
|---|
| it was quite a surprise to learn that a big portion of yankilanders do it too, |
Yes, definitely one of the biggest culture shocks when immigrating into USA. In my experience living here, it seems most non-orthodox jewish parents who do this cite cosmetic (look like daddy) and cultural (bullying in school) reasons.
Last edited on
| He told me that he had to have the procedure performed as an adult |
@helios
You are right, although my circumcision was not for religious reasons, but I now do believe that it was mainly religious values which influenced society which ultimately influenced my parents.
I never said that my parents were liars, rather I claimed my parents were lied to by society. Whether society was being genuine in their claims back then is questionable as society and religion too could have been largely misinformed. However now that we have more facts I as one member of society have brought this topic to this forum so that we can discuss and not keep claiming ignorance as a society.
Agreed, there are valid reasons, just like there are when one removes an appendix or tonsils, but to go and remove them just because they "might" cause an issue later is wrong. In most cases people don't have problems with their appendix or tonsils such that it has to be removed and would definitely claim the same for the penis foreskin (it is even less of an issue than appendicitis or tonsillitis.
There are however certain biological process in our bodies that are no longer valid - like wisdom teeth. Earlier humans had larger jaw bones which was required for tearing off raw meat or eating raw vegetables. These larger jaw structures easily accommodated the wisdom teeth, but we who have evolved with smaller jaw bones have issues with these wisdom teeth.
In this case I will agree with pro-active measures as wisdom teeth usually cause issues for most people.
[quote]This is not necessarily true. It may be true for some men, but it's not universally true. ... ... but I'm still telling you a circumcision can be an upgrade in terms of stimulation.[/quote[
I really can't make a claim on this personally as I never had sex before I got circumcised so have no reference to compare it to sex before I got circumcised. All I can go on is the science as it is also difficult for me to find valid examples who can attest to such a thing without bias.
Let me explain: in South Africa, most black tribes practice male circumcision, however in their cases it is done by a young man 18+ years old. Most of these men could tell you what it is like to have sex before being circumcised but due to the nature of the procedure they undergo and the social stigma associated it makes it very difficult to get unbiased feedback.
Basically the black men go to the "bush" where a traditional practitioner cuts them without any anesthetic in very rough conditions (the bush ...) which would make recovering in a dirty tent in your own backyard much more humane. According to their cultures, this is done as a passage to manhood, so I would imagine, that such a guy would not honestly tell you if his sexual sensation and stimulation actually decreased as a result of the procedure.
According to my understanding it has been scientifically ascertained that the foreskin contains many nerve endings which consequently does increase sexual stimulation and pleasure. In contrast though, it has also been discovered with multiple botched circumcisions where due to too much skin being removed caused the individual to have almost no sexual stimulation or sensation. Have you got data that would suggest otherwise?
| My understanding is that when it's done for religious reasons it's done when the person is a baby. |
You are right, although my circumcision was not for religious reasons, but I now do believe that it was mainly religious values which influenced society which ultimately influenced my parents.
| so I wouldn't so readily write your parents off as liars |
I never said that my parents were liars, rather I claimed my parents were lied to by society. Whether society was being genuine in their claims back then is questionable as society and religion too could have been largely misinformed. However now that we have more facts I as one member of society have brought this topic to this forum so that we can discuss and not keep claiming ignorance as a society.
| I can confidently say there are legitimate medical reasons to perform a circumcision, so I wouldn't so readily write your parents off as liars. |
Agreed, there are valid reasons, just like there are when one removes an appendix or tonsils, but to go and remove them just because they "might" cause an issue later is wrong. In most cases people don't have problems with their appendix or tonsils such that it has to be removed and would definitely claim the same for the penis foreskin (it is even less of an issue than appendicitis or tonsillitis.
There are however certain biological process in our bodies that are no longer valid - like wisdom teeth. Earlier humans had larger jaw bones which was required for tearing off raw meat or eating raw vegetables. These larger jaw structures easily accommodated the wisdom teeth, but we who have evolved with smaller jaw bones have issues with these wisdom teeth.
In this case I will agree with pro-active measures as wisdom teeth usually cause issues for most people.
[quote]This is not necessarily true. It may be true for some men, but it's not universally true. ... ... but I'm still telling you a circumcision can be an upgrade in terms of stimulation.[/quote[
I really can't make a claim on this personally as I never had sex before I got circumcised so have no reference to compare it to sex before I got circumcised. All I can go on is the science as it is also difficult for me to find valid examples who can attest to such a thing without bias.
Let me explain: in South Africa, most black tribes practice male circumcision, however in their cases it is done by a young man 18+ years old. Most of these men could tell you what it is like to have sex before being circumcised but due to the nature of the procedure they undergo and the social stigma associated it makes it very difficult to get unbiased feedback.
Basically the black men go to the "bush" where a traditional practitioner cuts them without any anesthetic in very rough conditions (the bush ...) which would make recovering in a dirty tent in your own backyard much more humane. According to their cultures, this is done as a passage to manhood, so I would imagine, that such a guy would not honestly tell you if his sexual sensation and stimulation actually decreased as a result of the procedure.
According to my understanding it has been scientifically ascertained that the foreskin contains many nerve endings which consequently does increase sexual stimulation and pleasure. In contrast though, it has also been discovered with multiple botched circumcisions where due to too much skin being removed caused the individual to have almost no sexual stimulation or sensation. Have you got data that would suggest otherwise?
@helios
I agree with this 100% - I too would advise the procedure if and only if it is medically required for a legitimate reasons (and not religiously / mythical motivated health reasons).
I don't worry and lose sleep over this but it is one thing that is a concern and a point of interest for me. My wife and I almost had our first son circumcised (believing social doctrine that its unhealthy to not be circumcised ...) but was luckily discouraged by our sons pediatrician who was against infant circumcision. Later when we researched the topic we completely decided against it and was extremely grateful we had certain events occur which prevented us from doing it. Personally I wouldn't like any parent to make that mistake.
Also, it may be a small bit of skin but if it does contribute to a significant amount of sexual enhancement, then it is not such a negligible thing (at least for me it isn't).
| but I'll reiterate that there are legitimate medical reasons for the procedure. I do think the practice of circumcision as a standard procedure that's performed indiscriminately should stop, though. |
I agree with this 100% - I too would advise the procedure if and only if it is medically required for a legitimate reasons (and not religiously / mythical motivated health reasons).
| Nah, don't worry about it. Of all the things that it's possible to miss, a small bit of skin should be at the bottom of the list. If it bothers you so much that you felt the need to write this post then you must be an incredibly content person, or you are wildly overestimating its importance. |
I don't worry and lose sleep over this but it is one thing that is a concern and a point of interest for me. My wife and I almost had our first son circumcised (believing social doctrine that its unhealthy to not be circumcised ...) but was luckily discouraged by our sons pediatrician who was against infant circumcision. Later when we researched the topic we completely decided against it and was extremely grateful we had certain events occur which prevented us from doing it. Personally I wouldn't like any parent to make that mistake.
Also, it may be a small bit of skin but if it does contribute to a significant amount of sexual enhancement, then it is not such a negligible thing (at least for me it isn't).
| I really can't make a claim on this personally as I never had sex before I got circumcised so have no reference to compare it to sex before I got circumcised. All I can go on is the science as it is also difficult for me to find valid examples who can attest to such a thing without bias. [...] According to my understanding it has been scientifically ascertained that the foreskin contains many nerve endings which consequently does increase sexual stimulation and pleasure. In contrast though, it has also been discovered with multiple botched circumcisions where due to too much skin being removed caused the individual to have almost no sexual stimulation or sensation. Have you got data that would suggest otherwise? |
I think looking at the results of botched procedures is unfair. If your doctor can screw up one procedure they can just as easily screw up another. If anything, that's an argument against operating on genitalia at all, not against circumcision in particular.
| Also, it may be a small bit of skin but if it does contribute to a significant amount of sexual enhancement, then it is not such a negligible thing (at least for me it isn't). |
| I don't worry and lose sleep over this but it is one thing that is a concern and a point of interest for me. My wife and I almost had our first son circumcised (believing social doctrine that its unhealthy to not be circumcised ...) but was luckily discouraged by our sons pediatrician who was against infant circumcision. Later when we researched the topic we completely decided against it and was extremely grateful we had certain events occur which prevented us from doing it. Personally I wouldn't like any parent to make that mistake. |
I'm glad you found such a good pediatrician.
* He used an unusual word for it. I know, I fucked up by not asking him to clarify. I have no one to blame but myself. Live and learn.
@ne555
It may be the reason most Americans do it still, but I believe Dr. John Harvey Kellogg is one of Americas big reasons this practice became so popular and at the time he pushed the agenda that masturbation was a sin. His cure for this sin was to have young boys circumcised.
This vile man even claimed that if a boy is caught in the act of masturbating that he should be circumcised without any anesthetic. He believed that this will teach the sinner ...
If only most people knew this they would know that they are following the practice popularized by this over religious sick man - not actual medical science.
| it was quite a surprise to learn that a big portion of yankilanders do it too, but not for religious reasons instead using medical |
It may be the reason most Americans do it still, but I believe Dr. John Harvey Kellogg is one of Americas big reasons this practice became so popular and at the time he pushed the agenda that masturbation was a sin. His cure for this sin was to have young boys circumcised.
This vile man even claimed that if a boy is caught in the act of masturbating that he should be circumcised without any anesthetic. He believed that this will teach the sinner ...
If only most people knew this they would know that they are following the practice popularized by this over religious sick man - not actual medical science.
@Cubbi
it is ironic how it is "socially acceptable" for a bunch of "amputees" (the circumcised) to mock/bully the uncircumcised (the intact people) while if it were the other way around society would deem such people (intact people) to be cold heart'd pieces of shit if they were to be mocking/bullying a person because of their disability/deformity.
Hopefully if society did things to change the perception that a circumcised penis looks funny then uncircumcised children may become less mocked at schools.
One way I tell my wife is that someone should create a cartoon where they must portray a circumcised dick as the bald dude ...
| and cultural (bullying in school) reasons. |
it is ironic how it is "socially acceptable" for a bunch of "amputees" (the circumcised) to mock/bully the uncircumcised (the intact people) while if it were the other way around society would deem such people (intact people) to be cold heart'd pieces of shit if they were to be mocking/bullying a person because of their disability/deformity.
Hopefully if society did things to change the perception that a circumcised penis looks funny then uncircumcised children may become less mocked at schools.
One way I tell my wife is that someone should create a cartoon where they must portray a circumcised dick as the bald dude ...
@coder777
True, but at least the act became band for females in most countries around the world.
well put!
| Not only boys but also girls are affected by this criminal act. |
True, but at least the act became band for females in most countries around the world.
| If there is a medical reason. Well, they should be able to tell what it is and why there was no other choice. Which is extreme unlikely. |
well put!
Topic archived. No new replies allowed.