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Which is the best?
| Calling someone "delusional" and that they "shouldn't use a computer" is not constructive criticism, it's an insult. |
Yes... it was an insult.
| So, you did want to insult people then? Since you did put a snide comment and, according to you, if you didn't want to insult people you wouldn't put a snide comment (deductively the opposite is therefore also true). |
Yes, I didn't realize I wasn't making that clear.
| I didn't call you a coward, I said it was a cowardly tactic. If you want to take it as an insult, though, that's up to you. |
I'll take it as an insult, but I don't feel insulted, anyhow, so it doesn't really matter.
| If I thought you were a coward I wouldn't have pointed it out, since cowardly tactics would be part of your normal behaviour. |
Woops, fair point.
| It just seems cowardly to insult someone and then politely ask them not to be insulted. anyway. |
I was insulting people, and I wasn't asking them not to be insulted (even though you clearly interpreted it that way).
| Like I said, if you hadn't wanted to insult people you wouldn't have written the insults in the first place. |
Well I was.
| It'd be different if someone was calling you on your insult and you then apologised, because that would mean you had seen the error of your ways or that you hadn't anticipated someone being insulted by your comment. |
Nothing to say here.
| Putting that footnote there, to me, seems like you had anticipated someone being offended, but decided you'd leave your comment anyway. |
I didn't anticipate people being offended. Anyone who feels offended by some stranger on the internet talking smack about their text editor is probably better off not reading/posting on internet forums.
| I didn't think you were, just that there was a chance you were and I hadn't picked up on it. |
Cool.
| * I do believe in freedom of speech (strongly), and I don't agree with people just censoring anything that offends them (actually I don't believe in censorship at all, except for self-censorship), but you shouldn't purposefully insult people |
Well just as you are free to express your opinion, I am free to exercise my freedom of speech and insult people all I want. Maybe your superego is more developed than mine, but I have no moral qualm with insults, especially when they can yield positive results.
| Well now I have a reason to look else where. If you would kindly list some of these features that I could look into. Along with the annoying ones that aren't there from vim so I know what to expect. |
Elisp is so much better than vimscript it's funny. That should be reason enough. And once you start using Emacs I think you'll find it just... feels better. I can't really describe it, you just need to experience it.
| Running water is the same every where (this is a good example actually, how much customization does water need to do it's job :P), but yes if you live in a country that doesn't have running water I assume you wouldn't last very long. |
What I meant was, sacrificing an advantage because you don't want to become dependent on it is crazy. With your earlier logic it would make sense not to use running water so that whenever you were in situation where there wasn't running water you wouldn't be dependent. Which seems crazy.
| "In this day and age", I guarantee a good chunk of the 7 billion people that live on this planet have never even heard of or even seen what a laptop is. |
Great, and that large chunk probably doesn't give a crap about Emacs or Vim either.
The point is: you do, and I'm assuming you own a laptop so why not customize (also, if you really feel this way, is your Vim completely uncustomized)?
You don't know many geeks if you don't know that we will fight to the death over literally anything even remotely technical.
>Hey, look at this naturally occurring triangle.
>That's not a real triangle.
>Yes it is...
>No! A triangle is defined as a shape that has three angles that add up to 360 degrees you moron!
>Not very frequently in nature, idiot! Geometry is an imperfect abstraction of reality!
>You're an imperfect abstraction of reality!
>I'll kill you!
And they were never heard from again.
>Hey, look at this naturally occurring triangle.
>That's not a real triangle.
>Yes it is...
>No! A triangle is defined as a shape that has three angles that add up to 360 degrees you moron!
>Not very frequently in nature, idiot! Geometry is an imperfect abstraction of reality!
>You're an imperfect abstraction of reality!
>I'll kill you!
And they were never heard from again.
closed account (zb0S216C)
| chrisname wrote: |
|---|
| "You don't know many geeks if you don't know that we will fight to the death over literally anything even remotely technical." |
That's what's so sad about it. "To the death" is taking it too far, to the point where it's pathetic.
Wazzak
| >No! A triangle is defined as a shape that has three angles that add up to 360 degrees you moron! |
That definition is wrong. In planar geometry the angles add up to 180 degrees, and if it's a spherical triangle the measure can be from 180 to 540 degrees.
Did I just prove your point?
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closed account (o1vk4iN6)
| ascii wrote: |
|---|
| Elisp is so much better than vimscript it's funny. That should be reason enough. And once you start using Emacs I think you'll find it just... feels better. I can't really describe it, you just need to experience it. |
See below. I've never touched vimscript and probably never will. I can say the same for C and C++, yet C is probably more widely used over C++.
| ascii wrote: |
|---|
| What I meant was, sacrificing an advantage because you don't want to become dependent on it is crazy. With your earlier logic it would make sense not to use running water so that whenever you were in situation where there wasn't running water you wouldn't be dependent. Which seems crazy. |
It's not sacrificing an advantage if it isn't an advantage. Everything is there to the point where I don't need to customize anything. It's a text editor how much do you really need to customize it unless you don't like it. I've used notepad to program in.
| The point is: you do, and I'm assuming you own a laptop so why not customize (also, if you really feel this way, is your Vim completely uncustomized)? |
I have one, am never going to get another. Overpriced hardware that doesn't last nearly as long nor as powerful as a desktop. My vim is completely uncustomized, yes.
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| See below. I've never touched vimscript and probably never will. |
Well since you're a vim user... that's stupid.
| It's not sacrificing an advantage if it isn't an advantage. |
How are features that you've written and added not advantages? You add them because they are advantageous. You're not making any sense.
| Everything is there to the point where I don't need to customize anything. It's a text editor how much do you really need to customize it unless you don't like it. |
I don't think you see the power of customization. Adapting your editor to suit your needs is more intelligent and yields better results than adapting yourself to your editor. Vim and Emacs were created to be customizable and you're missing out on a lot if you choose not to.
| I've used notepad to program in. |
So have I. And it sucks.
| I have one, am never going to get another. Overpriced hardware that doesn't last nearly as long nor as powerful as a desktop. |
Desktops are dying (as are laptops, for that matter). In 10 years, I'm not even sure you'll be able to buy one for recreational use.
| My vim is completely uncustomized, yes. |
Again, this is stupid.
Meanwhile, after using both Vim and Emacs, finding both of them adequate enough for most intents and purposes (although IIRC its pretty hard to set up a repl in vim), I settle for Sublime Text cause it has everything I need, is as configurable as I need, looks pleasant and neither requires me to learn an archaic lisp dialect nor a completely new script language.
By the way - while customizing is always nice, you shouldn't overdo it. Becoming reliant on an environment that takes weeks to set up isn't really a good thing, so restricting yourself to existing packages (unless you really need a completely new feature)/collections of those packages is probably best - you <i>are</i> going to have to migrate. Normally a few times per year, more often depending on circumstances.
By the way - while customizing is always nice, you shouldn't overdo it. Becoming reliant on an environment that takes weeks to set up isn't really a good thing, so restricting yourself to existing packages (unless you really need a completely new feature)/collections of those packages is probably best - you <i>are</i> going to have to migrate. Normally a few times per year, more often depending on circumstances.
So when you move, take your stuff with you. ¿what's the problem?
So no powerful machines or transportable ones, ¿what technology will be using?
| Desktops are dying (as are laptops, for that matter) |
closed account (o1vk4iN6)
@ascii
See above, I don't need to create complex scripts to customize or do other tasks so there is no need for me to learn a language I will most likely rarely use. If you think using my time wisely is stupid, then ok. I have bash script/python/etc if I ever need to automate anything which is far more useful then something that is restricted to such a small subset (one little ity bity program).
They are not advantages because they are fluff, I don't need them. We are talking about a text editor here. For the same reason I don't waste my time learning a language that is for all intended purposes, useless.
So I'm guessing you changed every single hot key for Emacs ? You didn't bother learning any of them. When you first started, you just opened up the config file and started setting all your hot keys right? There really isn't anything other then hot keys to customize. Vim uses the same syntax as 'sed' so in it's own way it is already tailored to a group of people (me included). I didn't adapt to the program, I picked a program that was already tailored to me and my needs. I think it is silly to pick a program simply because it is customizable. In of itself, you have to adapt yourself to learn how to customize it (in this case you have to learn vimscript and elisp). Why pick a program that is so customizable you can turn it into something entirely difference. You'd be better off creating your own language and creating your own editor with that language.
Desktops are dying lol. Just saying but super computers that have 1000 intel processors and 1000 nvidia gpu's in them that are used daily, that cost millions of dollars to maintain, aren't going to be replaced by a tablet. It is more likely that this planet won't be here in 10 years.
It isn't stupid as vim is perfect :). Can't customize perfection.
@hanst90
Yah sublime is nice as well, I've been using it for all my programming lately.
See above, I don't need to create complex scripts to customize or do other tasks so there is no need for me to learn a language I will most likely rarely use. If you think using my time wisely is stupid, then ok. I have bash script/python/etc if I ever need to automate anything which is far more useful then something that is restricted to such a small subset (one little ity bity program).
They are not advantages because they are fluff, I don't need them. We are talking about a text editor here. For the same reason I don't waste my time learning a language that is for all intended purposes, useless.
So I'm guessing you changed every single hot key for Emacs ? You didn't bother learning any of them. When you first started, you just opened up the config file and started setting all your hot keys right? There really isn't anything other then hot keys to customize. Vim uses the same syntax as 'sed' so in it's own way it is already tailored to a group of people (me included). I didn't adapt to the program, I picked a program that was already tailored to me and my needs. I think it is silly to pick a program simply because it is customizable. In of itself, you have to adapt yourself to learn how to customize it (in this case you have to learn vimscript and elisp). Why pick a program that is so customizable you can turn it into something entirely difference. You'd be better off creating your own language and creating your own editor with that language.
Desktops are dying lol. Just saying but super computers that have 1000 intel processors and 1000 nvidia gpu's in them that are used daily, that cost millions of dollars to maintain, aren't going to be replaced by a tablet. It is more likely that this planet won't be here in 10 years.
It isn't stupid as vim is perfect :). Can't customize perfection.
@hanst90
Yah sublime is nice as well, I've been using it for all my programming lately.
** NOW EDITED TO BE CHILD FRIENDLY, HENCE THE STRIKETHROUGHS **
While I agree, it doesn't take weeks for me to configure my Emacs. I keep everything on Dropbox so when I need to set it up I can literally go to www.dropbox.com, download my Emacs folder, drag and drop and be done.
In terms of powerful machines, I wasn't really talking about supercomputers. Obviously supercomputers won't be any smaller than they need to be to get the maximum processing power. However, desktops and laptops will probably be all but replaced for recreational use by tablets and smartphones in 10 years.
And as for transportable machines... tablets and smartphones are easier to transport than laptops.
This isstupid fluffy. Most things written in vim script are pretty simple (albeit ugly).
Again, this isstupid rainbows. Whether or not you use vimscript frequently the changes that you make with it would make you more productive with every other language you use (assuming you were editing them in Vim).
You clearly don't know what vimscript is used for if you think it's used for the same things as bash and python. And for the love of god: don't reply that you do know because you clearly have nofucking idea what you're talking about unicorn.
If you honestly feel this way why don't you just go and use notepad? You don't need any of the "fluff" in Vim either. In other words this entire sentence contradicts your entire argument,dumbass princess.
When you feel like you want to stop beingstupid a fairy how about you realize that just like the "fluff" Vim has that notepad doesn't is helpful so are the scripts you could use with it.
No, not at all. The first thing I did was read through the whole documentation, then spend about a month using it under the default configuration and then once I'd decided what I wanted to change and add I did so. I don't know why you thought I would do such a thing but it doesn't matter: it was wrong.
Again, you clearly don't knowshit about vimscript magic. You're pretty much just boasting your own ignorance here.
Bullshit Toads. I seriously doubt that you were able to flawlessly or even productively use Vim when you first started. And this is true for everyone. Just about everything you've ever done in life you've had to adapt to. So when you have the chance to adapt something to yourself instead why wouldn't you do it?
And you're entitled to your owndumb and incorrect opinions. pony.
You don't even need to learn elisp to make some useful changes. I didn't know crap about elisp when I started customizing my Emacs. I just browsed around the settings and downloaded some scripts off of the internet. I didn't need to adapt at all.
That's pretty much what you're doing. Can you honestly tell me you'd be more productive using an editor some stranger created or one that you've personally created and tailored to your preferences. Emacs pretty much gives you the tools to make your own editor. So the reasoning behind "picking a program that is so customizable you can turn it into something entirely different" is that that entirely different thing can be amazing and not take much effort.
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/ConnectedDeviceschart2.gifdumbass cutiepie.
Supercomputers make up a miniscule percentage of the computers used in the world. I was mostly talking about recreational desktops. As I said earlier in this post "Obviously supercomputers won't be any smaller than they need to be to get the maximum processing power."
I have nothing to say.
| Becoming reliant on an environment that takes weeks to set up isn't really a good thing |
While I agree, it doesn't take weeks for me to configure my Emacs. I keep everything on Dropbox so when I need to set it up I can literally go to www.dropbox.com, download my Emacs folder, drag and drop and be done.
| Desktops are dying (as are laptops, for that matter) So no powerful machines or transportable ones, ¿what technology will be using? |
In terms of powerful machines, I wasn't really talking about supercomputers. Obviously supercomputers won't be any smaller than they need to be to get the maximum processing power. However, desktops and laptops will probably be all but replaced for recreational use by tablets and smartphones in 10 years.
And as for transportable machines... tablets and smartphones are easier to transport than laptops.
| See above, I don't need to create complex scripts to customize or do other tasks |
This is
| there is no need for me to learn a language I will most likely rarely use. |
Again, this is
| I have bash script/python/etc if I ever need to automate anything which is far more useful then something that is restricted to such a small subset (one little ity bity program). |
You clearly don't know what vimscript is used for if you think it's used for the same things as bash and python. And for the love of god: don't reply that you do know because you clearly have no
| They are not advantages because they are fluff, I don't need them. |
If you honestly feel this way why don't you just go and use notepad? You don't need any of the "fluff" in Vim either. In other words this entire sentence contradicts your entire argument,
When you feel like you want to stop being
| So I'm guessing you changed every single hot key for Emacs ? You didn't bother learning any of them. When you first started, you just opened up the config file and started setting all your hot keys right? |
No, not at all. The first thing I did was read through the whole documentation, then spend about a month using it under the default configuration and then once I'd decided what I wanted to change and add I did so. I don't know why you thought I would do such a thing but it doesn't matter: it was wrong.
| There really isn't anything other then hot keys to customize. |
Again, you clearly don't know
| I didn't adapt to the program, I picked a program that was already tailored to me and my needs. |
| I think it is silly to pick a program simply because it is customizable. |
And you're entitled to your own
| In of itself, you have to adapt yourself to learn how to customize it (in this case you have to learn vimscript and elisp). |
You don't even need to learn elisp to make some useful changes. I didn't know crap about elisp when I started customizing my Emacs. I just browsed around the settings and downloaded some scripts off of the internet. I didn't need to adapt at all.
| Why pick a program that is so customizable you can turn it into something entirely difference. You'd be better off creating your own language and creating your own editor with that language. |
That's pretty much what you're doing. Can you honestly tell me you'd be more productive using an editor some stranger created or one that you've personally created and tailored to your preferences. Emacs pretty much gives you the tools to make your own editor. So the reasoning behind "picking a program that is so customizable you can turn it into something entirely different" is that that entirely different thing can be amazing and not take much effort.
| Desktops are dying lol. |
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/ConnectedDeviceschart2.gif
| Just saying but super computers that have 1000 intel processors and 1000 nvidia gpu's in them that are used daily, that cost millions of dollars to maintain, aren't going to be replaced by a tablet. |
Supercomputers make up a miniscule percentage of the computers used in the world. I was mostly talking about recreational desktops. As I said earlier in this post "Obviously supercomputers won't be any smaller than they need to be to get the maximum processing power."
| It isn't stupid as vim is perfect :). Can't customize perfection. |
I have nothing to say.
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closed account (1yR4jE8b)
What started as a simple tongue-in-cheek jab at an age-old "debate"...has gotten waaaaaaaaaaaaay out of hand.
closed account (o1vk4iN6)
^
@ascii
And it stopped being a discussion when you started cursing every second word, if all you can say is I'm an idiot cause I don't agree with your opinion, then good day.
@ascii
And it stopped being a discussion when you started cursing every second word, if all you can say is I'm an idiot cause I don't agree with your opinion, then good day.
Real programmers set the constants at the beginning of the universe such that the universe evolves to contain a hard disk with the data they want.
Real programmers program a computer to create a universe containing a hard disk with the data they want.
| And it stopped being a discussion when you started cursing every second word, if all you can say is I'm an idiot cause I don't agree with your opinion, then good day. |
No no no, silly. I was calling you an idiot because your opinions were wrong.
Err... You have a point with the swearing, anyhow. It's now been edited to be more child friendly.
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