Why pay for Macs/Apple products? They're OVERpriced!!!!!
yes i know mortgage was a loan, but i meant loan in general because i dont think you can actually do that on a mortgage specifically
Well your mortgage would be based on the x year term, the rate the bank offers and the deposit you put in. Once you have all that figured out, they will set a monthly rate for you to pay. So if you wish to pay more, as you say, then you would pick a 5 year term.
Edit:
also add property tax and home owner's insurance to that. Its usually all bundled together.
Edit:
also add property tax and home owner's insurance to that. Its usually all bundled together.
Last edited on
Even the most expensive, ludocrious, pricey laptop PC with Windows usually sells for 5% less than an equivalent Mac. |
Give manufacturer and model name or it didn't happen.
I bought a Dell M4600 last year for $3200, after a 20% discount. I guess it is *more* than most expensive MBP you could get at that time, and it was not the most expensive M4600 I could configure. And I didn't get an IPS screen, because I'm not doing graphics.
Check prices of Dell Precision series. They are more expensive than MBPs (but offer proportionally more). And actually MBPs, Dell Precision are the only viable choices for power users now. All the other laptops are either much less performant or have much worse build quality. Also not many manufacturers give 3+ year NBD service, which is a deal breaker.
Engineering uses mostly MBP with OS X and Dell with Win/Linux (and we have freedom to buy whatever hardware we want to make us happy). Windows-only laptops from cheaper manufacturers are used almost exclusively in sales and marketing, because they are enough for Excel and Powerpoint.
I think I know where this "Macs are overpriced" comes from. It is because people are judging by numbers. E.g. here is a laptop for $500, it has a 2.4 GHz CPU and 8 GB RAM, just as some MBP for $1800, so the obvious conclusion is MBP is overpriced. They are missing the fact, that the cheaper one is some crappy AMD processor with cropped cache and in MBP there is a quad core i7 with 8MB cache, which is 4x or more faster at the same clock.
Another thing they are missing is that for a laptop the build quality is as important as raw performance. It really matters, whether your laptop can work 7 hours on batteries or only 2, whether it makes a constant noise from fans or is completely silent, whether it gets hot when you compile your project, whether it has a cheap TN with poor viewing angles and extreme color shifting or an expensive TN / IPS... Lots of those things matter and they make most of the price.
Last edited on
It's true, rapidcoder.
An equivalent PC to an equivalent Mac will generally cost less, but if you want the best performance you'll have to move up from a Mac to a better PC.
Unfortunately, even some of the best PCs are heaps better than the best Macs at not even double the price in many cases.
An equivalent PC to an equivalent Mac will generally cost less, but if you want the best performance you'll have to move up from a Mac to a better PC.
Unfortunately, even some of the best PCs are heaps better than the best Macs at not even double the price in many cases.
I did some small observation here, and discovered that the most expensive Mac desktop goes for $3,628.00 on Google Shopping right as I write this now.
A small glimpse at its specs:
12 GB RAM - Maximum support is 64 GB on the PCB.
2.4 GHz - six cores - two CPUs with Hyperthreading and Turbo Boost.
12 MB cache, 24 MB L3 cache.
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 5770 - 1 GB DDR5 SDRAM.
2 x USB ports.
1 TB HDD - 7200 RPM.
That's definitely no bad per se, but it's nothing out of this world all around.
Now, I searched for a non-Mac desktop for less to see if I can compare or surpass the specs, and I found this:
HP Workstation 2420 - $2,864.00.
16 GB RAM - 64 GB max supported(same as above).
Intel Xeon E5-1650 / 3.2 GHz - one CPU, but has a faster clock - six cores(same as above), has Hyperthreading, Turbo Boost, and Quickpath Interconnect.
Has only 12 MB total cache in L3. Mac owned here, but we're not done yet!
Graphics: NVIDIA Quadro 2000 - 1 GB DDR5 SDRAM - DVI & DisplayPort.
EXTRA FEATURES INCLUDED: Processor cooler, embedded security, and several others.
Results?
Although the non-Mac desktop isn't better in every department, I found a basic foundation of a desktop that is at least as equivalent as that of its neighboring Mac for more than $700.00 less, which is rounded off to about 1/5th of the whole value saved.
Although this isn't conclusive, I can hope some see that you can get Mac power without Mac price ... easily.
A small glimpse at its specs:
12 GB RAM - Maximum support is 64 GB on the PCB.
2.4 GHz - six cores - two CPUs with Hyperthreading and Turbo Boost.
12 MB cache, 24 MB L3 cache.
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 5770 - 1 GB DDR5 SDRAM.
2 x USB ports.
1 TB HDD - 7200 RPM.
That's definitely no bad per se, but it's nothing out of this world all around.
Now, I searched for a non-Mac desktop for less to see if I can compare or surpass the specs, and I found this:
HP Workstation 2420 - $2,864.00.
16 GB RAM - 64 GB max supported(same as above).
Intel Xeon E5-1650 / 3.2 GHz - one CPU, but has a faster clock - six cores(same as above), has Hyperthreading, Turbo Boost, and Quickpath Interconnect.
Has only 12 MB total cache in L3. Mac owned here, but we're not done yet!
Graphics: NVIDIA Quadro 2000 - 1 GB DDR5 SDRAM - DVI & DisplayPort.
EXTRA FEATURES INCLUDED: Processor cooler, embedded security, and several others.
Results?
Although the non-Mac desktop isn't better in every department, I found a basic foundation of a desktop that is at least as equivalent as that of its neighboring Mac for more than $700.00 less, which is rounded off to about 1/5th of the whole value saved.
Although this isn't conclusive, I can hope some see that you can get Mac power without Mac price ... easily.
I have to say I kind of changed my mind on Mac's... Kind of...
For desktops, Macs are way overpriced and not even worth looking at in my opinion (If you want a comparison I will be glad to do one and can even do some benchmark competitions with all you desktop mac users vs my non mac desktop ;p).
BUT for laptop I have to say after doing some research on mac's and checking everything out. I will say that in laptops macs do seem to be better then other laptops if you count everything. They are slightly overpriced for the low end versions but for the high end ones they are not to bad, and are probably worth the extra money.
I would even consider buying a mac book if I didn't hate Mac OS so much :( but who knows maybe I will come around.
Also if I understand you right Ape and you are comparing desktop computers, even the HP workstation is overpriced and marked up way over it should be. For desktops newegg.com is your friend and building your own will save you money and give you a better quality computer ;p
For desktops, Macs are way overpriced and not even worth looking at in my opinion (If you want a comparison I will be glad to do one and can even do some benchmark competitions with all you desktop mac users vs my non mac desktop ;p).
BUT for laptop I have to say after doing some research on mac's and checking everything out. I will say that in laptops macs do seem to be better then other laptops if you count everything. They are slightly overpriced for the low end versions but for the high end ones they are not to bad, and are probably worth the extra money.
I would even consider buying a mac book if I didn't hate Mac OS so much :( but who knows maybe I will come around.
Also if I understand you right Ape and you are comparing desktop computers, even the HP workstation is overpriced and marked up way over it should be. For desktops newegg.com is your friend and building your own will save you money and give you a better quality computer ;p
Last edited on
I also noticed that even the most expensive Macs come by default with slower clock speeds, lesser technologies in the microprocessors, and the Apple Mac Pro (computer I just compared above) has only a max 1600MHz FSB speed, while I've seen WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY cheaper PCs that have such chipset support.
I'm going to have to go on a limb and say Macs are not only overpriced, but they're under par as well.
I can take this MUCH further, but I don't want Mac users to feel depressed.
I'm going to have to go on a limb and say Macs are not only overpriced, but they're under par as well.
I can take this MUCH further, but I don't want Mac users to feel depressed.
@Zereo
My main purpose isn't to compare these computers as for buying decisions, but to show people reading this that, as obvious as put, you can clearly see that the HP dominated the Mac with exact support in nearly everything except dual CPUs and L3 cache, but even surpassed it with other technologies, clock speed, graphics support, embedded security, and NVidia's GeForce owns AMD's Radeon any day. Just ask gamers.
You got the same amount of bread and pocketed one fifth of the savings.
Plus, there's no guarantee that a co-processor really makes the Mac Pro desktop much more faster than HP in the first place that makes for a huge difference, and if you wanted equivalent cache support for L3 and a coprocessor I could have gone up a few hundred and blew away the Mac's specs while still scoring a few hundreds in savings.
When you add it all up, sure, the Mac Pro may have some VERY slight advantages, but the HP workstation has advantages as well. I didn't put both to go the extra, extra mile to weigh in the differences, but as you can see I still saved 1/5 of the price and got basically the same support and then some in some areas, regardless of lacking 12 MB in a cache and a coprocessor.
My main purpose isn't to compare these computers as for buying decisions, but to show people reading this that, as obvious as put, you can clearly see that the HP dominated the Mac with exact support in nearly everything except dual CPUs and L3 cache, but even surpassed it with other technologies, clock speed, graphics support, embedded security, and NVidia's GeForce owns AMD's Radeon any day. Just ask gamers.
You got the same amount of bread and pocketed one fifth of the savings.
Plus, there's no guarantee that a co-processor really makes the Mac Pro desktop much more faster than HP in the first place that makes for a huge difference, and if you wanted equivalent cache support for L3 and a coprocessor I could have gone up a few hundred and blew away the Mac's specs while still scoring a few hundreds in savings.
When you add it all up, sure, the Mac Pro may have some VERY slight advantages, but the HP workstation has advantages as well. I didn't put both to go the extra, extra mile to weigh in the differences, but as you can see I still saved 1/5 of the price and got basically the same support and then some in some areas, regardless of lacking 12 MB in a cache and a coprocessor.
Last edited on
LOL I just found this PC that is about half or more powerful as the previously listed Mac, but costs more than four times less!
You show me a Mac desktop with the specs below for the same price (none exist) and same performance and I'll jump off the empire state building in 1080p video right now.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/22081794?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227016078175&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=23712238150&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem
Add it up all you want, but you'll NEVER, EVER find a better Mac for less, because they are overpriced by about 20% compared to leading competitors!
Only a moron can't figure the crystal clear facts out.
You show me a Mac desktop with the specs below for the same price (none exist) and same performance and I'll jump off the empire state building in 1080p video right now.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/22081794?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227016078175&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=23712238150&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem
Add it up all you want, but you'll NEVER, EVER find a better Mac for less, because they are overpriced by about 20% compared to leading competitors!
Only a moron can't figure the crystal clear facts out.
Last edited on
The OP is right, Macs are overpriced, they aren't built better either, and as Ape Guard says you can't find one just as good as an equivelent price, they will cost hundreds or thousands of dollars more for the same shit basically.
1.If Macs were "built better", why have so many people I know complained about their crashing HDDs constantly, firmware problems, including booting problems, fried microprocessors, inadequate gaming experience and performance, slower speeds, problems with drivers and software support, they get viruses, the OS will crash, freeze, get "stuck" like on any other cheaper computer, screen tearing will happen, etc. And people pay $1,000.00 on an iPhone to go on Facebook and Instagram (you can do both just well on cheaper competitors with similar or better speeds and memory), and end up unlocking, and jailbreaking their phones to get non-market software. That's completely freaking retarded.
2.Who would pay so much more money on a device to not even use it to its fullest? I mean I have seen, and I'm sure you have too, clueless people surfing Google on their $500.00-$1,000.00+ iPhones, as if they couldn't do it equally as well on an Android, which can cost more than 10x less than the iPhone, and can have very dedicated memory and processor speed, apps, and satisfaction.
Even a damn Blackberry can do you better in the long run.
3.Their desktops are poorly optimizeable, their systems are all locked down, software and hardware wise, you are limited to their approved market on mobile devices without going through unnecessary trouble to jailbreak after spending a pretty penny on their crap in the first place! Wake up! Apple has you by the berries(that includes girls' berries as well).
1.If Macs were "built better", why have so many people I know complained about their crashing HDDs constantly, firmware problems, including booting problems, fried microprocessors, inadequate gaming experience and performance, slower speeds, problems with drivers and software support, they get viruses, the OS will crash, freeze, get "stuck" like on any other cheaper computer, screen tearing will happen, etc. And people pay $1,000.00 on an iPhone to go on Facebook and Instagram (you can do both just well on cheaper competitors with similar or better speeds and memory), and end up unlocking, and jailbreaking their phones to get non-market software. That's completely freaking retarded.
2.Who would pay so much more money on a device to not even use it to its fullest? I mean I have seen, and I'm sure you have too, clueless people surfing Google on their $500.00-$1,000.00+ iPhones, as if they couldn't do it equally as well on an Android, which can cost more than 10x less than the iPhone, and can have very dedicated memory and processor speed, apps, and satisfaction.
Even a damn Blackberry can do you better in the long run.
3.Their desktops are poorly optimizeable, their systems are all locked down, software and hardware wise, you are limited to their approved market on mobile devices without going through unnecessary trouble to jailbreak after spending a pretty penny on their crap in the first place! Wake up! Apple has you by the berries(that includes girls' berries as well).
Last edited on
Here is another comparison against a mac desktop and my custom built computer.
Tried to make it as close as possible for the specs but apple doesn't let you customize your hardware that much.
Mac Pro Quad-Core (Desktop)
Price - $4,424.00
http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MD770LL/A?
CPU - One 3.2GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon W3565 processor
Turbo Boost dynamic performance up to 3.46GHz
RAM – 32GB (4x8GB) 1333MHz DDR3 ECC R-DIMM SDRAM
Hard Drive – 512GB solid-statedrive (They didn’t have anything less in config) Cost + $600 (Ha)
1TB 7200-rpm HD
GPU - ATI Radeon HD 5870 with 1GB GDDR5
Optical Drive – DVD Burner 18x
My Custom Built Desktop Computer
Price – $2119.40 Give or take a hundred or two for extra’s
CPU - Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) (4.2GHz Overclocked); - Cost - $329.99
CPU Cooling – Corsair Hydro Series H100i Water Cooler
Cost - $109.99
MotherBoard – GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD5H
Cost - $198.49
PSU – Corsair Professional Series Gold AX1200 1200W – Cost $279.99 Overkill I know
RAM - G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 Cost - $219.99
Hard Drive - OCZ Agility 4 128G2 - Cost $144.99
1TB Western Digital 7200-rpm HD - Cost $80.99
Case - Thermaltake Level 10 GT Cost - $239.99
GPU - EVGA GeForce GTX 680 2GB GDDR5 – Cost $479.99
Optical Drive - Asus DVD Burner 24X – Cost $29.99
The build quality is the same and the quality of the hardware is the same if not more for custom built I would say. But I will let others be the judge on which has the better hardware and specs, I'm just comparing the price tags.
Difference is $2,304.60
So for desktops Mac's are WAY WAY overpriced in my opinion, for laptops they are a little overpriced but probably worth it in my opinion.
Tried to make it as close as possible for the specs but apple doesn't let you customize your hardware that much.
Mac Pro Quad-Core (Desktop)
Price - $4,424.00
http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MD770LL/A?
CPU - One 3.2GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon W3565 processor
Turbo Boost dynamic performance up to 3.46GHz
RAM – 32GB (4x8GB) 1333MHz DDR3 ECC R-DIMM SDRAM
Hard Drive – 512GB solid-statedrive (They didn’t have anything less in config) Cost + $600 (Ha)
1TB 7200-rpm HD
GPU - ATI Radeon HD 5870 with 1GB GDDR5
Optical Drive – DVD Burner 18x
My Custom Built Desktop Computer
Price – $2119.40 Give or take a hundred or two for extra’s
CPU - Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) (4.2GHz Overclocked); - Cost - $329.99
CPU Cooling – Corsair Hydro Series H100i Water Cooler
Cost - $109.99
MotherBoard – GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD5H
Cost - $198.49
PSU – Corsair Professional Series Gold AX1200 1200W – Cost $279.99 Overkill I know
RAM - G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 Cost - $219.99
Hard Drive - OCZ Agility 4 128G2 - Cost $144.99
1TB Western Digital 7200-rpm HD - Cost $80.99
Case - Thermaltake Level 10 GT Cost - $239.99
GPU - EVGA GeForce GTX 680 2GB GDDR5 – Cost $479.99
Optical Drive - Asus DVD Burner 24X – Cost $29.99
The build quality is the same and the quality of the hardware is the same if not more for custom built I would say. But I will let others be the judge on which has the better hardware and specs, I'm just comparing the price tags.
Difference is $2,304.60
So for desktops Mac's are WAY WAY overpriced in my opinion, for laptops they are a little overpriced but probably worth it in my opinion.
Last edited on
Your custom designed computer is definitely better.
You'd be saving over $2,000.00, although there's no warranty, a one year warranty could be an added series of expensives to have to reimburse year after year.
And with an extra $2,000.00 you can always add, re-build, etc.
Just saving a few hundred dollars makes all the difference in the end.
Of course, depending on what your needs are, you could have removed or exchanged some of those pieces of hardware you purchased and saved even more money.
However, it's essential that you measure up chipset speed with FSB speed by using an accurate range to not exceed or work with other hardware at an irregular level, as that can cause damage and extra reimbursing on your part.
And also, you didn't mention the more crucial performers, like FSB speed as one example.
EXTRA: Also, does your self-made computer system come with a pre-installed OS? Do you use Windows on it, Linux (not sure how good Linux can handle some features though), etc.
You'd be saving over $2,000.00, although there's no warranty, a one year warranty could be an added series of expensives to have to reimburse year after year.
And with an extra $2,000.00 you can always add, re-build, etc.
Just saving a few hundred dollars makes all the difference in the end.
Of course, depending on what your needs are, you could have removed or exchanged some of those pieces of hardware you purchased and saved even more money.
However, it's essential that you measure up chipset speed with FSB speed by using an accurate range to not exceed or work with other hardware at an irregular level, as that can cause damage and extra reimbursing on your part.
And also, you didn't mention the more crucial performers, like FSB speed as one example.
EXTRA: Also, does your self-made computer system come with a pre-installed OS? Do you use Windows on it, Linux (not sure how good Linux can handle some features though), etc.
Last edited on
Zereo,
I would probably say that a 27-inch iMac could be more like the spec of your custom build for about $3000.
I would probably say that a 27-inch iMac could be more like the spec of your custom build for about $3000.
Never really checked out the iMac's but you might be right though it did make me laugh that they charge $600 dollars for a Solid State drive, and to go from 6GB 1333 ram to 32GB 1333 ram it is a extra $900...
I'm all for spending your money on whatever you want, just me personally I can't really justify them prices for desktops, though you guys do have me looking at maybe buying a Macbook in a couple years when I can afford it since I blew all my savings on my desktop lol.
I'm all for spending your money on whatever you want, just me personally I can't really justify them prices for desktops, though you guys do have me looking at maybe buying a Macbook in a couple years when I can afford it since I blew all my savings on my desktop lol.
Zereo,
I know you say "the quality of the hardware is the same" but I can't help but think they are not. I have the feeling that when you look at the Mac Pro you are looking at workstation/server grade hardware. (going from my experience of PowerMacs)
The price of the drive and ram does seem a little eye watering but on the other hand they are also a little scant on the details of them. I'm not condemning or condoning the price but yeah...
I know you say "the quality of the hardware is the same" but I can't help but think they are not. I have the feeling that when you look at the Mac Pro you are looking at workstation/server grade hardware. (going from my experience of PowerMacs)
The price of the drive and ram does seem a little eye watering but on the other hand they are also a little scant on the details of them. I'm not condemning or condoning the price but yeah...
The hardware is the same as far as I can tell from the research I have done (Which is limited I admit). The motherboards are either a Nehalem or Westmere architecture. CPU is a 6 core Xeon Westmere or 4 core Nehalem. Just guessing on the ram but what I have found it is most likely Crucial. But its hard to tell what quality the hardware is unless you know exactly whats it in. Even then every one will vary, just like some cpu chips will have better OC speeds then others.
Last edited on
I'm not sure you get what I mean by workstation/server grade hardware but it doesn't matter, I'm not sure that I could explain. :0)
I was recently looking for a board to build a workstation and came across this one: Intel Workstation Board W2600CR
http://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/us/en/motherboards/server-motherboards/server-board-w2600cr.html
I think that it would work of at about $600 give or take a bank managers tear.
I was recently looking for a board to build a workstation and came across this one: Intel Workstation Board W2600CR
http://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/us/en/motherboards/server-motherboards/server-board-w2600cr.html
I think that it would work of at about $600 give or take a bank managers tear.
Ya sadly one thing I have never really gotten into was servers/professional hardware so my knowledge is quite slim on most things to do with that area of hardware. Though I have been having a urge to get my roommate and myself a personal NAS server since they seem to getting pretty cheap. Was going to look into them more and see if they can do more then just act as a centralized file storage for a network. Life if they provide remote access capabilities, ability to host websites, ect. So maybe that will give me a chance to learn more about that type of hardware.
Anyways that is a very nice looking MB, you building one from scratch or just getting a replacement MB and some other hardware? The little I know about professional grade hardware is that it is VERY expensive lol.
Anyways that is a very nice looking MB, you building one from scratch or just getting a replacement MB and some other hardware? The little I know about professional grade hardware is that it is VERY expensive lol.