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Would you consider me Advanced Programmer

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closed account (ozUkoG1T)
Hi,

I have no idea on what a advanced programmer is better than every one else. Also I am interested in others opinion do you think I am a advanced programmer or a Intermediate or Novice Programmer (Hopefully not Novice) I also Do not understand why companies look at experience rather than ability since I am 13 but I know more than someone with say 3 years experience in C++. So what is the problem of comapnies picking the experienced but not the intellligent one.
I have no idea on what a advanced programmer is better than every one else.


If you have to ask whether or not you are advanced, then you are not advanced. This is true not only of programming, but of everything in life.

One of my favorite quotes is "Education is the progressive realization of our ignorance". The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know. Those who think they know everything actually know very little, and those that really know a lot are often overwhelmed because they can see how much is still unknown to them.

I also Do not understand why companies look at experience rather than ability


Experience is the best teacher. Unless you're some kind of crazy savant (read: you're not), the only way to learn to program is to actually do it. Roughly... the longer you do it, the better you get.

That doesn't mean that someone is guaranteed to be a better programmer just because they've been programming longer... but it does tend to follow that pattern.

Again this is true not only of programming, but of everything in life.

since I am 13 but I know more than someone with say 3 years experience in C++.


No offense, but if you're 13 you don't know jack shit. Sorry, but it's true. You may know more than other 13 year olds, and maybe even more than some 17 year olds but that means very little to anyone over 20.

When you're over 20 you'll understand why it works that way.


The best way to get better is not to think you know more than other people... but to accept that you don't and try to learn from others. Arrogance begets ignorance.
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Hey Cyber, if you're so good I could use your help here:
http://www.cplusplus.com/forum/beginner/96741/
Think of it from there point of view. How do they know your ability? It's a hard thing to judge from a resume, experience is much easier. And typically (not always) more experience would lead to more ability.
The best way to get better is not to think you know more than other people... but to accept that you don't and try to learn from others.


I quite much disagree with this statement. My personal philosophy is quite different:

The best way to get better is to not try to be good at all: instead you should find a hard problem that interests you and try to solve it. You shouldn't at all compare yourself to others; you should compare your abilities to the difficulty of the problem you are trying to solve. When you do that, you will have no difficulty being painfully self-critical. You will also quickly learn to be just as critical to others as you are to yourself.
I also Do not understand why companies look at experience rather than ability

Because companies are in the business of producing something, and ability doesn't guarantee results. Even when you graduate a good college and know all about graph theory, linear algebra, object-oriented design, modern algorithms and data structures, in addition to knowing C++, you still need years of on-the-job training before you're worth your salary. Day to day work of a software engineer is troubleshooting, debugging, testing, interaction with business, clients, managers, colleagues. This comes with experience.

C++ in particular has a large gap between knowing the language and the library and knowing how to use them in real life, although books like Effective and Exceptional C++ series, C++ Coding Standards, etc, do help. We, for example, require all junior hires to know the first Effective C++ book.

What you can do right now to prove your ability is start building up experience by getting involved in open source projects.
Dish wrote:
No offense, but if you're 13 you don't know jack shit.


Wat? Why did you assume he knows nothing because of his age? I feel comfortable with C++ yet I am younger. I also made a space shooter. I don't understand...
Based on one of your recent posts, I would say probably novice because it appears that you don't know how if - else control structures work.

And you do this , mov eax, 0, instead of return 0, because you think assembly is faster. You must not realize that C++ is compiled into assembly language. And if you want to be more efficient, then you would use xor eax, eax, which is what a compiler will generate with optimizations enabled.

But I'm sure one day you will be an advanced programmer.
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closed account (ozUkoG1T)
Well, I would never use mov eax ,0 in real life but just to show it I did that so but I am very well able to program in C++ . I mean I found 0day attack vectors which can render Space and Government equipment useless so why is the point of experience being a factor in it.

I mean cant they just set a standard project for a small amount of time considerable amount around 4-5 days and see the best project with least Bugs and then pick the best candidate. This would rapidly increase the efficiency of Selection process and best Candidate selection. So what is the problem ?
I mean I found 0day attack vectors which can render Space and Government equipment useless so why is the point of experience being a factor in it.

I have a hard time believing this.
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closed account (ozUkoG1T)
Well,

Look at my threads then.... also I have to say my 0days are quite good as well.

I have to say my 0days are quite good as well

Well, I am sure that your posts have attracted a lot of high level attention. Perhaps you will soon be recruited.
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closed account (3qX21hU5)
I mean I found 0day attack vectors which can render Space and Government equipment useless so why is the point of experience being a factor in it.

And I'm sorry but that just proves that you still have a lot to learn. This thread in general proves it also.

One word of advice is to stop caring how "good" you are and just learn. At this stage in your life it is not a competition. You don't need to make it seem like you know so much more then you do. Be willing to accept that you are not the best and be willing to accept help when you need it and you will learn much faster.


Wat? Why did you assume he knows nothing because of his age? I feel comfortable with C++ yet I am younger. I also made a space shooter. I don't understand...


Because at his age his experience just isn't there. He could have 3 years of experience and even then you have to realize that most programmer that are in the profession have usually 10+ years of experience. At his age most just don't have the mental maturity, logical thought process, and experience to be a "expert" programmer (If there is such a thing). Disch's advice is good advice.


EDIT: @Catfish haha nice find...
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closed account (ozUkoG1T)
Well, I do not see that in a long time but still why does experience matter and quality does not. Please explain.
Because quality is not important. It's only important that the employee is broken, unquestioning and obedient ;)
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closed account (ozUkoG1T)
yeah , I agree I actually do ask people for help and I still do in some topics and not only that but how can people with 1 year experience get a job in the industry then if it is so difficult.

Also I am not even saying I am the best since I know many programmers who actually have and know x20 time me LOL. also I do say experience is just not enough to be the candidate also the actual knowledge.
closed account (3qX21hU5)
Experience is quality usually. C++ and programming is not something that you can just learn in a matter of month or even years. For employers experience tells them that the employee has worked in the field for a certain amount of time and in that time has probably learned what they need to do and can be proficient in what is asked of them.

The three main things employers usually look at is this.

1) Work Experience.

2) College (IE Where they graduated, if they graduated, ECT)

3) Portfolio

Something you have to understand is businesses aren't there to gamble. If they have a choice between someone that has very good experience and a good portfolio, or someone that has no work experience and a good portfolio most of the time they will go with the first one.

This is because the work experience shows that they have experience in the industry (Which is a lot different then just doing hobby programming) and most likely can do what they say they can do. It also probably means they will not have to spend as much time and money on training that individual.

Where as the person with no experience they don't know if that person can actually hold up their end in a professional work place. They also probably need more training since they have never worked in a professional programming atmosphere.
closed account (ozUkoG1T)
So , How do people with small experience ever get a job if this industry is like this?

Also Zereo thanks for the good post. It has teached me a bit
closed account (3qX21hU5)
There are multiple ways. Here are some common ones


1) Take on a internship for a company. This will give you some experience in the industry and something to put on your resume. It also has the added bonus that if you put in hard work and do a good job during the internship the company might hire you on full time.

2) Reach out to other developers (Networking). Networking is one of the most important aspects of finding good jobs. Try to get to know and make friends with other developers. These connections can help you with referrals and maybe even land you a job with that friends company.

3) Join free projects or opensource projects. Basically this is just building up your experience and resume. Since anyone can contribute to these projects you don't have to worry about not getting hired, and sometimes employers will consider these work experience. It also has the added benefit that is that opensource takes off and you are a major contributor you might get a full time job with them.

4) Start out in a entry level job (Mailroom, receptionist, whatever) just to get your foot in the door for the company. After you have worked there for a while you can try and apply for a tech job and will have better chances since you are already in house. This is what I have done, I started out as a temp worker to help with filing papers and after a year I got hired on full time and just recently got promoted to the in house IT technician.

Them are just a few of the ways to do it. The main would be networking and making friends with fellow developers.
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