Experimenting on you!
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Okay, so out of this list, organize these objects from highest priority to lowest priority. If you need a definition or example, just ask.
subsistence
protection
affection
understanding
participation
leisure
creation
identity
freedom
subsistence
protection
affection
understanding
participation
leisure
creation
identity
freedom
freedom sort of encompasses leisure/creation/identity, doesn't it? Can you clarify the definition of freedom you're looking for here?
As in the American government spying on it's citizens. This lowers your freedom of privacy. In many ways it does encompass it but there are ways to be creative and have an identity with no freedom. It's just when you have freedom, your identity can bloom with your creativity.
"The power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint."
"The power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint."
I'm still confused.
You can't form your own identity if you have no choice in how to act/speak/think.
Nor can you be creative if you're forced to just do as your told.
You can't engage is leisurely activities either.
I'm not trying to be a dick and derail this... I'm just genuinely confused.
My order without freedom listed (most important at the top):
Subsistence (wouldn't this have to be #1 for everyone?)
protection 1 * see note below
leisure
identity
creativity
affection
understanding
participation
protection 2 *see below
I split protection up into 2 groups:
protection 1 (important): Basic law enforcement, health care, fire dept, etc, etc.
protection 2 (I don't really care about): Protection from fabricated or exceedingly rare threats (insurance, fighting terrorists, war on drugs, etc)
You can't form your own identity if you have no choice in how to act/speak/think.
Nor can you be creative if you're forced to just do as your told.
You can't engage is leisurely activities either.
I'm not trying to be a dick and derail this... I'm just genuinely confused.
My order without freedom listed (most important at the top):
Subsistence (wouldn't this have to be #1 for everyone?)
protection 1 * see note below
leisure
identity
creativity
affection
understanding
participation
protection 2 *see below
I split protection up into 2 groups:
protection 1 (important): Basic law enforcement, health care, fire dept, etc, etc.
protection 2 (I don't really care about): Protection from fabricated or exceedingly rare threats (insurance, fighting terrorists, war on drugs, etc)
subsistence as in the ability to actually continue living?
Understanding as in me understanding the world? Others understanding me? People being understanding of each other? Something else?
Protection from what? Protection from other humans? Protection offered by insurance? Protection from other animals? Protection from illness by my immune system? Protection from UV by the ozone?
Creation of things by just myself or creation of new things generally existing in the world?
Participation?
Actually, it would be good to have a clear definition of all these worlds. They all potentially have such general or specific meanings. The word alone in very little context means too much or nothing.
Understanding as in me understanding the world? Others understanding me? People being understanding of each other? Something else?
Protection from what? Protection from other humans? Protection offered by insurance? Protection from other animals? Protection from illness by my immune system? Protection from UV by the ozone?
Creation of things by just myself or creation of new things generally existing in the world?
Participation?
Actually, it would be good to have a clear definition of all these worlds. They all potentially have such general or specific meanings. The word alone in very little context means too much or nothing.
Subsistence is the things needed to continue living,
Understanding as in you understanding the world,
Protection from everything,
Creation of both and
Participation in society.
Understanding as in you understanding the world,
Protection from everything,
Creation of both and
Participation in society.
subsistence
understanding
freedom
protection
leisure
creation
participation
identity
affection
Although on the face of it, protection seems more important than freedom, protection should never come at the cost of freedom, so freedom must go higher imo.
understanding
freedom
protection
leisure
creation
participation
identity
affection
Although on the face of it, protection seems more important than freedom, protection should never come at the cost of freedom, so freedom must go higher imo.
| Although on the face of it, protection seems more important than freedom, protection should never come at the cost of freedom, so freedom must go higher imo. |
I'm familiar with that famous quote, but it should be taken as rhetoric rather than be taken literally.
To be protected from murderers and rapists... you need to have laws which outlaw murder and rape. Which in turn means you are no longer free to murder and rape.
Unhindered freedom is anarchy.
There is, of course, a line where the distinction between necessary protection and unnecessary restrictions is drawn. Which is why I split my protection into two separate groups.
EDIT: and in some cases... added protection can actually help freedom. Think of how much more difficult it'd be to have a gay pride parade or something if everyone who was participating had to worry about getting beat up/killed by some kind of conservative extremist.
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subsistence
freedom
identity
understanding
protection
creation
affection
leisure
participation
Although protection is a difficult one because you may need protection to have the other things, but you have to assume that the protection on the list is only necessary for maintaining things not on the list.
Then again some forms of protection can restrict freedom.
freedom
identity
understanding
protection
creation
affection
leisure
participation
Although protection is a difficult one because you may need protection to have the other things, but you have to assume that the protection on the list is only necessary for maintaining things not on the list.
Then again some forms of protection can restrict freedom.
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Case by case, you will find some that don't hold any of those in importance. Me? They may be important, but none of them are jumping out at me as important over another.
I'm familiar with that famous quote, but it should be taken as rhetoric rather than be taken literally. |
I didn't quote it lol but I'm sure it bears resemblance to something once said. You definitely make good points about protection and splitting it was wise. I'd also roughly agree with you that key protections should come 2nd and lesser important protection much lower down the list.
| They may be important, but none of them are jumping out at me as important over another. |
subsistence ?
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Only reason I feel it necessary to continue living is for my special needs son, but it isn't important to me. Everything eventually dies in my mind.
Wouldn't your son be your subsistence then? If you have no will to live without him.
Subsistence
Protection
Understanding
Freedom
Creation
Identity
Leisure
Participation
Affection
| Subsistence - the means by which one maintains life |
Subsistence
Protection
Understanding
Freedom
Creation
Identity
Leisure
Participation
Affection
Hadn't thought about it that way. Truthfully, I go by one day at time and I today could find freedom important and the next protection important. I can't put them in order because tomorrow, depending on what is happening in my life and the mood I'm in, the list would likely change.
Wow, this exploded in answers once I made my question more clear! Thanks a lot for answering!
Wow, the feels. I hope he grows to be a healthy young man. Good luck with your son.
| Only reason I feel it necessary to continue living is for my special needs son, but it isn't important to me. Everything eventually dies in my mind. |
Wow, the feels. I hope he grows to be a healthy young man. Good luck with your son.
Okay, lets debate. Is understanding the universe around you more important than the freedom to do so?
(EDIT)
For example, you're government restricts you from learning about (insert topic here). What is more important, fighting so everyone can learn about it or sneaking around to learn about it yourself and sharing knowledge with the world "under the table?"
(EDIT)
For example, you're government restricts you from learning about (insert topic here). What is more important, fighting so everyone can learn about it or sneaking around to learn about it yourself and sharing knowledge with the world "under the table?"
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| Is understanding the universe around you more important than the freedom to do so? |
How could you understand it without the freedom to understand it?
I think that most people satisfy their needs for understanding with delusion, and most forms of higher understanding are more or less BS anyways.
This is probably one of the most interesting things about human psychology (the need to understand, or be convinced you understand the world around you). people are afraid of what they don't understand, or at least extremely uncomfortable with it, and they do whatever it takes to fill in gray areas with at least something.
This is probably one of the most interesting things about human psychology (the need to understand, or be convinced you understand the world around you). people are afraid of what they don't understand, or at least extremely uncomfortable with it, and they do whatever it takes to fill in gray areas with at least something.
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