Where to pick up odd jobs for programming?

[AceDawg45]

So, I am turning 14 in a month, and a thought came to me: I am going to be 16 in 2 years. There is no way I am going to be able to afford a car with the job I have (soccer referee). And, there is no way I am asking my parents for money, because every time I do that I feel like a little kid asking for candy.

So, I figured that since I have about a year and a half of experience programming - whether it be regular C++ software development or web development (I like to consider myself a pretty good web developer) - I could probably begin picking up freelance jobs on the internet.

But, I don't know where to find these jobs, really. There is the "Jobs" forum on this site, but those are usually for tutoring (not a great teacher) or for full time jobs.

Anyone have any good sources?

[MiiNiPaa]

https://www.elance.com/
https://www.odesk.com/
Both requires you to be at least 18.

[megatron 0]

Without trying to burst your bubble:

I'd find it highly unlikely for a business to trust a 14 year old with creating software that a business would depend on (Website, database etc) UNLESS you actually know the person like it's your cousin, uncle or whatever. There will always be a distrust, always has, people who are older think they know everything, trust me. If anything they'd smile and find it cute.


So what you could do, if you feel confident enough in your self and abilities would be to create your own website, make it all fancy to attract people. Obviously your website will be offering programming solutions, write a little auto biography about yourself, trying not to mention your age.

Write some code templates, a strong basis for something that can be forked into different things which can be changed or modified for customers needs. In most cases they will probably want a GUI, so write some template GUI code which you can put into different projects.

Try to avoid science, maths and engineering institutes, unless you REALLY have the know how. Try and keep it small, like an automobile garage, writing and check in and out software maybe, or um.. A register software for your school.

Try and find a programming buddy, a good start would be 3 of you. And before even attempting to make any software to sell, see how well all 3 of you fair at writing software together. See each other's strengths and weaknesses and attempt to iron out any short comings before writing commercial software you want to sell. Any bug that will mess up with a business data will immediately put you on a bad run.

AN IMPORTANT NOTE:

Offer to work in the IT department of your school. The experience will keep you in good standing for any uni stuff, and you will learn a tonne on the way, and if you enjoy IT on a whole you will have a blast. Even better, maybe one of the IT guys there know a programming language and will offer to teach it you.


Goodluck with your venture, I hope to join you someday, maybe.

[AceDawg45]

@megatron 0. Hmm. I figured that'd be the case about the age. Thanks for the advice though. It doesn't seem like a bad idea about the site thing, and I actually have experience working with people - on a Unity project, although we never really told anyone. It was really just to test our collaborating skills. It went really well, but it is still unfinished because summer ended and school keeps you too busy for any big project like a game.

As for the IT thing, I thought about starting a club like that, except the problem is that there are only about 4 people in my school that are tech savvy like I am - but they don't want to take on learning a programming language. And, unfortunately, you need a minimum of 20 people to start a club.
And the about helping the IT staff - the sad thing is, I am smarter than both my computer teacher and technology teacher combined -- really not trying to brag, but my area is really weak with tech-smart people.

But, thanks again for the advice

[megatron 0]

I actually have experience working with people - on a Unity project, although we never really told anyone. It was really just to test our collaborating skills. It went really well, but it is still unfinished because summer ended and school keeps you too busy for any big project like a game.

If school is keeping you occupied, how would you be fairing with an actual customer project? Being an experienced programmer, unfortunately, isn't just banging out line after line of code. They have to juggle * a lot * of things. Someone is on holiday, someone is ill, on top of that 2 or 3 of them are just being plain lazy and you're the one who has to pick up the slack.

As for the IT thing, I thought about starting a club like that, except the problem is that there are only about 4 people in my school that are tech savvy like I am - but they don't want to take on learning a programming language. And, unfortunately, you need a minimum of 20 people to start a club.

Yeah, school sucks. It reminds me when I wanted to learn German and Russian at school, but me being the only one interested they didn't do it. That's how life goes sometimes.

And the about helping the IT staff - the sad thing is, I am smarter than both my computer teacher and technology teacher combined -- really not trying to brag, but my area is really weak with tech-smart people.

Hmm... If you want to keep busy, perhaps we could work on a couple of projects together, and see how that fairs out?

Just trying to help, I know how it feels when you can't help but think the world is against ya.

[helios]

There will always be a distrust, always has, people who are older think they know everything, trust me. If anything they'd smile and find it cute.

The distrust is not entirely without reason, although unless the older person is knowledgeable in the area in question, it's not about knowledge, but about reliability. Simply put, someone who doesn't need the job for subsistence has less incentive to not screw up than someone who does.

Write some code templates, a strong basis for something that can be forked into different things which can be changed or modified for customers needs. In most cases they will probably want a GUI, so write some template GUI code which you can put into different projects.

That's pretty silly advice. So what you're saying is that he should develop widgets that are just as good for, say, inventory management and POS. I imagine that would just be a blank screen maybe with an OK button at the bottom.

[megatron 0]

The distrust is not entirely without reason, although unless the older person is knowledgeable in the area in question, it's not about knowledge, but about reliability. Simply put, someone who doesn't need the job for subsistence has less incentive to not screw up than someone who does.

The distrust is not entirely without reason

I never said it was. I distrust most if not all strangers, no matter of age, race or background.

So what you're saying is that he should develop widgets that are just as good for, say, inventory management and POS.

I'm not saying anything of the like. What you are saying is what you are assuming.

Simply put, someone who doesn't need the job for subsistence has less incentive to not screw up than someone who does.

Now that I find silly.

I quote from : https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100603/0311539672.shtml

once people have a base level of money that makes them comfortable, using monetary incentives to get them to do creative work fails. Not just fails, but leads to worse performance.

I'll try and answer that in a way you can read.

So what you are saying is that people who do things out of joy and passion, an eagerness to learn, out of free learning, and giving back to the world without the need of a monetary system to push them to do the right thing has MORE of an incentive to screw up?

Babbage, Da Vinci, Torvalds, Tesla.

Well damn... perhaps you are right.

I'm out of here.

[helios]

I'm not saying anything of the like.

Then what does "write some template GUI code which you can put into different projects" mean?

So what you are saying is that people who do things out of joy and passion, an eagerness to learn, out of free learning, and giving back to the world without the need of a monetary system to push them to do the right thing has MORE of an incentive to screw up?

I must have met, like, three such people. Maybe.
But that aside, suppose I find myself two such individuals, and hire both of them. Now, one I pay a fair wage, and the other I pay a third of that. Are both equally likely to stay working for me?
Also, may I remind you that all those people worked in the exact projects they wanted to. That's rarely a privilege you get as an employee.

Simply put, [all other things being equal,] someone who doesn't need the job for subsistence has less incentive to not screw up than someone who does.

I didn't think I needed to explicitly say that, since a comparison is meaningless otherwise.

once people have a base level of money that makes them comfortable, using monetary incentives to get them to do creative work fails. Not just fails, but leads to worse performance.

So you're saying that yes, OP will in fact perform worse than someone equally skilled that needs the job to live, unless he works for free. Sounds like an employer is better off never hiring a non-adult.

[megatron 0]

Then what does "write some template GUI code which you can put into different projects" mean?

To write several base templates of code, boilerplate or skeleton, if you will. Each one designated, such as for a console application, a game, a database etc. A generic set up, something which will needed to be wrote before actual functionality can be added. Having to write each one separately for Win, Mac and *nix every time for each customer I'd find cumbersome and tiresome.

suppose I find myself two such individuals, and hire both of them. Now, one I pay a fair wage, and the other I pay a third of that. Are both equally likely to stay working for me?
Also, may I remind you that all those people worked in the exact projects they wanted to. That's rarely a privilege you get as an employee.

Whether they stay working for you or not is irrelevant. I also found your example humorously facetious and doesn't acknowledge their actual goal. If person A gets paid more than person B, both equally skilled and they don't know how much the other gets paid then it is no longer a factor.

Besides, if these two people were actually altruistic in their goal of bettering themselves and humanity, they'd know working for a software company is actually a step backwards. So I find that situation highly unlikely to evaluate.

[all other things being equal,]

No two things in this world are equal. Equality happens on a mathematical plane, not in the physical world.

Two people graduate from university, both did the same course, both got the exact same marks on each module, each one got the exact same questions right as the other. Give them a software to write, both will write it differently.

So you're saying that yes, OP will in fact perform worse than someone equally skilled that needs the job to live, unless he works for free. Sounds like an employer is better off never hiring a non-adult.

You misunderstood the terminology;

It's not about working for free, but working for money in it's entirety. People work for money to live, I have no objection to it, you do it, I do it. We have to unless rich mommy and daddy can support us.

The point raised is if money is the best

incentive

to creation. Which I find false.

I'm almost positive OP started programming because he/she was curious about computers and computer software and loved to learn how they work.

Now imagine a person purely going to study and graduate computer science because it is a goob job ( Something which has been rising since the 90's and high level abstraction languages ) and tell me whether the software they create will surpass work of someone who truly and undeniably wants to better computer software for all and everyone. Such as Ricthie, Stallman and many other computer programmers who's incentive was to change the computing word for the better , rather than for the money.


I'm tired of attempting to explain myself, my opinions are purely that, in which are both moral and political. I've never claimed to know the facts. The OP wanted help, I'm sorry if my opinions conflict with yours, I mean no harm.


EDIT:

I do not want to start debating unrelated issues to the OP's question. If you would like to continue arguing your point, please PM me, I'd be happy to reply and clear anything up.

[helios]

To write several base templates of code, boilerplate or skeleton, if you will. Each one designated, such as for a console application, a game, a database etc. A generic set up, something which will needed to be wrote before actual functionality can be added. Having to write each one separately for Win, Mac and *nix every time for each customer I'd find cumbersome and tiresome.

I have a hard time imagining what that might be, at least as far as the GUI is concerned. Like a GUI toolkit?

they don't know how much the other gets paid then it is no longer a factor.

Well, if they don't work in the same office or never talk to each other I suppose that wouldn't be an issue. Most of the time, you do know how much your coworkers make.

Besides, if these two people were actually altruistic in their goal of bettering themselves and humanity, they'd know working for a software company is actually a step backwards. So I find that situation highly unlikely to evaluate.

The point of the thread is small software development gigs, so I don't know what the point of your argument was in the first place, then.

No two things in this world are equal. Equality happens on a mathematical plane, not in the physical world.

I'm not trying to construct actual human beings, I'm making rhetorical arguments. The people I talk about don't need to actually exist for the arguments to be valid.

I'm almost positive OP started programming because he/she was curious about computers and computer software and loved to learn how they work.

Now imagine a person purely going to study and graduate computer science because it is a goob job ( Something which has been rising since the 90's and high level abstraction languages ) and tell me whether the software they create will surpass work of someone who truly and undeniably wants to better computer software for all and everyone. Such as Ricthie, Stallman and many other computer programmers who's incentive was to change the computing word for the better , rather than for the money.

Again, I don't see how this is relevant. OP is talking about earning some extra cash to save for a car, not about constructing some masterpiece of craftsmanship or something that benefits humanity.

[megatron 0]

Like a GUI toolkit?

I imagine so, yes. Creating reusable code would benefit him greatly in this kind of venture. I'd imagine a likely case is that someone wants something similar he has done for another client, but the purpose of it is not quite the same, but he is able to use most of the code from his last project, and create the new functionality, which again can be reusable at a later date.

I imagine this is how libraries work, you create a tool which you made to today, which can be used tomorrow. You keep adding to it over time and then viola, you have solid tool kit of functions and objects in the field you have been pursuing over the past X amount of time.

Well, if they don't work in the same office or never talk to each other I suppose that wouldn't be an issue. Most of the time, you do know how much your coworkers make.

Perhaps, I work at Burger King, it's not something that usually crops up in conversation, I guess it's nothing to brag about. :-)

The point of the thread is small software development gigs, so I don't know what the point of your argument was in the first place, then.

Again, I don't see how this is relevant. OP is talking about earning some extra cash to save for a car, not about constructing some masterpiece of craftsmanship or something that benefits humanity.

My argument was in response to your question(s), not the OP's.

I'm not trying to construct actual human beings, I'm making rhetorical arguments. The people I talk about don't need to actually exist for the arguments to be valid

In which case your rhetoric are telling me that a member of a Mexican cartel and a programmer has the same incentive to do what they do. Either of which you aren't referring to them as human beings, more as programs doing a job queue and being rewarded with processor time.

As you have guessed, I am now being pedantic.


Sorry AceDawg45 for filling your inbox with this jargon. I'm going to stop posting. :-)

[AceDawg45]

Wow, Good thing I didn't subscribe to this thread. '

@megatron 9, I don't care lol it doesn't matter you guys can argue.

Oh, and in all honesty, I only read about 1 of each of your posts - I saw how long each one was, and I don't think I don't have the brainpower at this moment to read all of them :|

[admkrk]

lol, I am not sure where all that argument came from either.

Simple fact though, this is not a good attitude to have:

the sad thing is, I am smarter than both my computer teacher and technology teacher combined

First it is not very likely to be true, although it might seem that way from your point of view. Suppose you got your car and it was time for a tune-up/repair, would you take it to a 14 year old that knew some of the new stuff about cars or someone who had experience working on cars for several years.

Put yourself in the "buyer's shoes" and think about who you would want to do the work for you. Would you pick someone that "claims" to know more or someone that can be judged on their experience of doing the job.

I am not saying you cannot find work, but the reality is that very few people will put their trust/money in a 14 year old when they can do it with a 30 year old.