Is C++ dead?
closed account (iw0XoG1T)
Is C++ dead? I have been told second hand from a source that I do not trust that claims C++ is no longer being taught at the major universities in the US. My biggest reason for distrust of this source is the fact that he stated what is being taught is Java. If anybody could point me to reliable sources, not blogs, on what is and is not being taught at major universities in the US I would appreciate it.
closed account (iw0XoG1T)
I agree that is why I am looking for citations; what I was hoping for is if just a few people could give my the names of universities in the US still teaching C++; I believe that I could probably contact these universities and get a list of there computer science courses offered. I am not a programmer all I ever do is write VBA macros that populate excel spreadsheets; so even though I am the most knowledgeable person at my place of employment one idiot that claims to be an expert does have influence.
Any good Computer Science/Computer Engineering/Software Engineering program is going to focus more on the fundamental concepts that are language agnostic. Learning the languages themselves is just a matter of learning the specific semantics used by that language. Understanding data structures and the algorithms that work on them, for example, will be universal to any language, (assuming that language provides the basic instruction sets to perform such work).
Whether major universities are teaching their courses in C++ or not is largely irrelevant. If they've determined that the courses are more easily taught in Java, so be it. That is not going to dictate what languages the software industry as a whole will use though.
If you really want to see whether C++ is dead or not, go to monster.com and search for programming related jobs. Let me know how many of them don't require or at least recommend some several years of C/C++ programming experience.
Whether major universities are teaching their courses in C++ or not is largely irrelevant. If they've determined that the courses are more easily taught in Java, so be it. That is not going to dictate what languages the software industry as a whole will use though.
If you really want to see whether C++ is dead or not, go to monster.com and search for programming related jobs. Let me know how many of them don't require or at least recommend some several years of C/C++ programming experience.
| he stated what is being taught is Java |
AFAIK, it's true that C++ isn't being taught in schools anymore. Still, that doesn't mean the language is dead. New programs and libraries are still being written, and the new standard is right around the corner. It's still one of the most popular languages, along with Java and C. For game development and other high performance applications, there's still nothing that can replace C++ and C.
C++ is, certainly, still being taught in schools. It's particularly useful for teaching data structures. However, this is not to discredit Java as a great classroom technology. Both have their niches and both are successfully used in universities/colleges.
What I would like to know is what languages are being taught in high school. I tutored for a course using VB in high school and my friend had a class using Pascal a few years prior.
What I would like to know is what languages are being taught in high school. I tutored for a course using VB in high school and my friend had a class using Pascal a few years prior.
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Visual Basic is being taught at my highschool...It was freaking terrible. As a programmer used to c, and c++, and having been one for 5 years before taking the course "Programming 1" It was pretty much torture :\, also programming 2 in my area wasn't even programming, it was networking and computer maintenance. Good skills to have, just not in any way a programming course.
moorecm's first response was right-on.
Whenever anyone says something outlandish like that, especially in a classroom environment, you need to respond, "Really? That surprises me! Can I get some references? I'd like to learn more about how Java is pushing C++ out."
When said airhead coughs and sputters, say, "I am disappointed that you cannot provide any references to such a bold claim. How can I trust you if you are unable to support your position?"
A lot of people, for some unknown reason, want Java to destroy C++. Who cares? Any professional who knows his stuff will use the appropriate language, whether it be C++ or Java, to accomplish his task.
It is only academics and flame-baiters who try with such nonsense.
Whenever anyone says something outlandish like that, especially in a classroom environment, you need to respond, "Really? That surprises me! Can I get some references? I'd like to learn more about how Java is pushing C++ out."
When said airhead coughs and sputters, say, "I am disappointed that you cannot provide any references to such a bold claim. How can I trust you if you are unable to support your position?"
A lot of people, for some unknown reason, want Java to destroy C++. Who cares? Any professional who knows his stuff will use the appropriate language, whether it be C++ or Java, to accomplish his task.
It is only academics and flame-baiters who try with such nonsense.
If you look at the courseware available from respected technical universities on YouTube, virtually all teach C++ and Java as part of the intro curriculum. If anything, Java is being pushed out by dynamic languages like Python for intro courses. Python is an easier language to teach the basics of algorithms, data structures and OO principles. And C++ lets one focus on the low-level interaction of the language with the hardware.
ftp://ftp.prerex.com/ugrad/python.pdf
ftp://ftp.prerex.com/ugrad/python.pdf
I think colleges teach C++ later so that people don't have to struggle with the syntax of the language, and they can focus more on semantics using an easier language like python. Another reason is python is a free download that saves students money for learning. I've heard that teachers lose most of their students through the context heavy syntax that comes with C++
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closed account (iw0XoG1T)
I am a total novice hobby programmer and will probably never be anything else; that said I spent one month usually one or two hours a night learning Python because I was told that it was easier.
I did not find it to be easier just different. I think when people say that, “Python is easier than C++,” the reason they say this is because you do not have to deal with memory management (e.g. the use of pointers). In my opinion memory management can be difficult, but the nice part of C++ is you don’t have to be bothered with low level programming because there are enough libraries that a beginner can avoid low level programming.
I see where C++ may seem more complex but usually these are exercises designed to teach low level programming and are not necessary; e.g. I am constantly seeing homework assignments where students are required to use arrays when a vector would be so much easier. I assume that the reason that instructors require this is that they are trying to teach low level programming and not that they are just incompetent.
In other words I find C++ can be an easy high level language for beginners and I do not buy the argument that C++ is too complicated or that Python is easier to learn.
I did not find it to be easier just different. I think when people say that, “Python is easier than C++,” the reason they say this is because you do not have to deal with memory management (e.g. the use of pointers). In my opinion memory management can be difficult, but the nice part of C++ is you don’t have to be bothered with low level programming because there are enough libraries that a beginner can avoid low level programming.
I see where C++ may seem more complex but usually these are exercises designed to teach low level programming and are not necessary; e.g. I am constantly seeing homework assignments where students are required to use arrays when a vector would be so much easier. I assume that the reason that instructors require this is that they are trying to teach low level programming and not that they are just incompetent.
In other words I find C++ can be an easy high level language for beginners and I do not buy the argument that C++ is too complicated or that Python is easier to learn.
closed account (S6k9GNh0)
1) C++ is still relatively popular. C is also relatively popular. Theres a new language that comes out everyday though.
2) Java is a piece of shit. I would almost NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER use Java. I simply see 0% reason.
3) LLVM is turning out to be a better, all around choice.
2) Java is a piece of shit. I would almost NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER use Java. I simply see 0% reason.
3) LLVM is turning out to be a better, all around choice.
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python has idle which I find very useful for testing out expressions in making algorithms.
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Ew. Javascript is good and cool but java? It has its uses but.... no. I'd rather stick to C++.
I personally don't care if people think it's "dead" because the language is still active and developing. Just look at these forums. There are more posts nearly every hour. I can camp here and refresh every minute for an entire day (and I have on occasion) and new posts still spring up. If C++ was such a dead language why would people still have so many questions?
I personally don't care if people think it's "dead" because the language is still active and developing. Just look at these forums. There are more posts nearly every hour. I can camp here and refresh every minute for an entire day (and I have on occasion) and new posts still spring up. If C++ was such a dead language why would people still have so many questions?
Why do so many discredit Java? It has its merits. Last semester I wrote an entire data-centric distributed system with redundancy in Java.
People hate Java because it has significantly many design flaws.
Then again, this is a C++ forum. ;-)
Then again, this is a C++ forum. ;-)
| Douas wrote: |
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| People hate Java because it has significantly many design flaws. |
Says the C++ programmer staring blindly at the template line noise on his screen...
I'm a C++ programmer and I think C++ is a horrible language. Most of that horror is due to a single fundamental design decision which is responsible for making it the popular language that it is: it's backwards compatibility with the C language.
Nothing shall be done to break that C compatibility. Which means tons of awful cruft and tortured syntax is what remains.
And then someone discovered that the template language is Turing complete...