Earn money with programming
I agree with him. Bazzy went a little off-topic, back there. The fact that the execution environment is written in native code doesn't change the fact that the application itself is written in a higher level language. Unless you're going to write a PHP interpreter, exactly what the PHP interpreter is written in is completely irrelevant.
xoreaxeax said that C++ isn't used. I showed that it's not true.
As long as computers will exists, programmers to maintain compiled software will be required
As long as computers will exists, programmers to maintain compiled software will be required
Thanks for all the attention :)
Oké, I realise I can't get jobs when I just know C++ (at my level). As I said before, I don't mind learning new things. (In fact I enjoy learning new things, like most of you probably do.) I don't want a full time job, but something on the side. I'm seventheen, so I still have a few year before I get a 'real' job. Most people of my age would just go working at a supermarket or something, but I think I would enjoy programming more ;) So maybe I could learn .NET or PHP/MySQL?
Oké, I realise I can't get jobs when I just know C++ (at my level). As I said before, I don't mind learning new things. (In fact I enjoy learning new things, like most of you probably do.) I don't want a full time job, but something on the side. I'm seventheen, so I still have a few year before I get a 'real' job. Most people of my age would just go working at a supermarket or something, but I think I would enjoy programming more ;) So maybe I could learn .NET or PHP/MySQL?
Last edited on
From an older thread I made I've come to the conclusion; going with C# would be better (probably just easier) than going all the way with .NET C++.
C++ is not going to die...
It still gives the most reliable and efficent code
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/02/facebook_hiphop_unveiled/
It still gives the most reliable and efficent code
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/02/facebook_hiphop_unveiled/
Last edited on
closed account (oz10RXSz)
Only 50% less CPU utilization thanks to C++? It is still damn slow.
If they run it on an Java application server with PHP support (e.g. Project Zero from IBM) they would get much more than this. And if they waited for Java 7 with dynamic language support or .NET 4.0 with dynamic language support, they would gain like 20 times more in performance instead of 2.
C++ and other statically compiled languages are extremely poor for translating dynamic languages into and this is not going to change. They managed to get a slight improvement only because the native PHP interpreter is even worse (and it is written in C++ too). So no - C++ does not give always the most reliable and efficient code. It is the programmer, that matters, not the language.
BTW: Can you please post any data from US market, from which we can see C++ programmers are paid really better than Java/.NET ones? Anywhere I look, they are either very close or Java skills are paid better.
If they run it on an Java application server with PHP support (e.g. Project Zero from IBM) they would get much more than this. And if they waited for Java 7 with dynamic language support or .NET 4.0 with dynamic language support, they would gain like 20 times more in performance instead of 2.
C++ and other statically compiled languages are extremely poor for translating dynamic languages into and this is not going to change. They managed to get a slight improvement only because the native PHP interpreter is even worse (and it is written in C++ too). So no - C++ does not give always the most reliable and efficient code. It is the programmer, that matters, not the language.
BTW: Can you please post any data from US market, from which we can see C++ programmers are paid really better than Java/.NET ones? Anywhere I look, they are either very close or Java skills are paid better.
closed account (z05DSL3A)
As with any tool, the choice of language should be more dependent on the the job at hand.
A lot of the work that I do can not be done with C#, Java, php, it has to be done with C/C++; then some of it is more appropriate for C#. So first, you have to decide what sort of programming you want to do, then look at what is best to learn to achieve it.
They both matter (and the knowledge of the problem domain). As an analogy; consider a driver as a programmer, the car as the language and the course as the job at hand.
So for drivers and cars we can have Lewis Hamilton driving a Mini and Jenson Button driving an F1 car.
Let's consider, as the course, of 60 laps around Silverstone. The drivers are of similar ability and both have a good knowledge of the track (problem domain). The F1 car will is all likelihood be win.
Now if the course is changed to a trip across London; again they have similar ability and knowledge of London but in all likelihood the Mini will get across London first.
So let's change things a bit in the last scenario, instead of Button we will have a London Taxi driver in a mini. Hamilton is a better driver, the cars are the same but the taxi driver will most likely win because he has a better knowledge of the problem domain.
So to recap, The programmer, the knowledge of the problem domain, and the choice of language are ALL important to the successful outcome of a project.
A lot of the work that I do can not be done with C#, Java, php, it has to be done with C/C++; then some of it is more appropriate for C#. So first, you have to decide what sort of programming you want to do, then look at what is best to learn to achieve it.
| xoreaxeax wrote: |
|---|
| It is the programmer, that matters, not the language. |
They both matter (and the knowledge of the problem domain). As an analogy; consider a driver as a programmer, the car as the language and the course as the job at hand.
So for drivers and cars we can have Lewis Hamilton driving a Mini and Jenson Button driving an F1 car.
Let's consider, as the course, of 60 laps around Silverstone. The drivers are of similar ability and both have a good knowledge of the track (problem domain). The F1 car will is all likelihood be win.
Now if the course is changed to a trip across London; again they have similar ability and knowledge of London but in all likelihood the Mini will get across London first.
So let's change things a bit in the last scenario, instead of Button we will have a London Taxi driver in a mini. Hamilton is a better driver, the cars are the same but the taxi driver will most likely win because he has a better knowledge of the problem domain.
So to recap, The programmer, the knowledge of the problem domain, and the choice of language are ALL important to the successful outcome of a project.
If it's true that the JVM / .Net Frameworks / Flash is written in C/C++ then as long as there are Java/C# developers, C/C++ developers are needed behind the scenes to update these platforms.
Anyway, I think C++ programmers can easily jump to languages like Java/C#/php/actionscript/etc .
Anyway, I think C++ programmers can easily jump to languages like Java/C#/php/actionscript/etc .
I think C++ is worth learning no matter what - It's given me so much understanding of everything and anything.
I think Assembly language is worth learning no matter what - It's given me so much understanding of everything and anything.
I think Hexadecimal opcodes are worth learning no matter what - They've given me so much understanding of everything and anything.
I think Binary is worth learning no matter what - It's given me so much understanding of everything and anything.
I think the laws of voltage, amperage, resistance and boolean logic are worth learning no matter what - They've given me so much understanding of everything and anything.
I think electron flow is worth learning no matter what - It's given me so much understanding of everything and anything.
I think the Standard Model is worth learning no matter what - It's given me so much understanding of everything and anything
I think [M-theory,Superstring theory] is worth learning no matter what - It's given me so much understanding of everything and anything
I think Hexadecimal opcodes are worth learning no matter what - They've given me so much understanding of everything and anything.
I think Binary is worth learning no matter what - It's given me so much understanding of everything and anything.
I think the laws of voltage, amperage, resistance and boolean logic are worth learning no matter what - They've given me so much understanding of everything and anything.
I think electron flow is worth learning no matter what - It's given me so much understanding of everything and anything.
I think the Standard Model is worth learning no matter what - It's given me so much understanding of everything and anything
I think [M-theory,Superstring theory] is worth learning no matter what - It's given me so much understanding of everything and anything
Well, I was mostly referring to computer science. Which I was pretty much illiterate in before C++, and I haven't even gone through the basics of it.
So, there's really no need to make a fool out of me, is there? :P
So, there's really no need to make a fool out of me, is there? :P
I wasn't, I was playing around :)
I agree with you. C++ is a good language to know. But you could argue that all those things are good to know. I mean, M-theory might turn out to be a component of a Theory of Everything. And knowing the Standard Model by heart would be useful. I don't know it by heart, but it would be useful to.
I can remember the quarks and the bosons and one neutrino.
I agree with you. C++ is a good language to know. But you could argue that all those things are good to know. I mean, M-theory might turn out to be a component of a Theory of Everything. And knowing the Standard Model by heart would be useful. I don't know it by heart, but it would be useful to.
I can remember the quarks and the bosons and one neutrino.
| I think the laws of voltage, amperage, resistance and boolean logic |
And how is binary more low level than hex? They're both just abstract representations of patterns of electrical currents or magnetic orientation of iron oxide particles on a metal platter. That's like saying the way dogs perceive light is more low level than the way humans perceive light.
| Does sleep deprivation count as a defense? |
ha ha i think no...
anyways the thread was not even meant to discuss the worth of C++, because that is already established...
I seek some advice on how to advance my career... since out of college about 4 years ago, i am working on a big project in C++ but since most of the work is done by a third party tool, all is left behind is to use the APIs..
So, to say frankly, I dont know as much C++ as I should know after working 3.5 years in it..
I have a basic java certification, but it is rotten because of no use... my employers trained me in .NET but resource requirement was in this project and I too personally like C++ and Linux...
I feel it is better to stick here and make something on my own after work...
Switching to java would need me to invest another 2-3 more years to get some decent experience and be worthy of it... and just everybody is writing java code out there... so the competition is too high.
Any syggestions would be appreciated.
closed account (oz10RXSz)
Every year the number of problems that cannot be solved efficiently in managed languages (with a little help of C in extreme cases) decreases. So investment in C++ is like investing today in a video rental store. There are uses for sure. But there are uses of COBOL and Fortran as well. In next 10 years average mobile phone would have hundreds of MBs RAM, several cores and noone would mind spending a few MB on the Java/.NET/whatever runtime. So except legacy projects and maybe gaming industry, which is very conservative (they used pure assembly 10 years after everyone else used C), there will be no real use for C++.
I would better invest my time in pure C. Once because it is lingua franca of IT, it is portable and simple, everything is usually somehow compatible with C - has C API or accepts extensions in C. You can do everything with {any managed language, C} what can be done in C++, but not the other way round.
This is a commonly repeated myth. But I've seen too many C++ programmers write terrible Java code, to believe this any more. Most of the time for learning C++ is spent on learning how to overcome language limitations and idiosyncrasies, not how to solve real problems.
I would better invest my time in pure C. Once because it is lingua franca of IT, it is portable and simple, everything is usually somehow compatible with C - has C API or accepts extensions in C. You can do everything with {any managed language, C} what can be done in C++, but not the other way round.
Anyway, I think C++ programmers can easily jump to languages like Java/C#/php/actionscript/etc . |
This is a commonly repeated myth. But I've seen too many C++ programmers write terrible Java code, to believe this any more. Most of the time for learning C++ is spent on learning how to overcome language limitations and idiosyncrasies, not how to solve real problems.
Last edited on
| I would better invest my time in pure C. Once because it is lingua franca of IT, it is portable and simple, everything is usually somehow compatible with C - has C API or accepts extensions in C. You can do everything with {any managed language, C} what can be done in C++, but not the other way round. |
That goes both ways. There is nothing that can be written in C or C++ that cannot be written in the other. Spending a thread bashing C++ and then promoting C either red flags you as very misinformed or trolling. Just sayin'...
| This is a commonly repeated myth. But I've seen too many C++ programmers write terrible Java code, to believe this any more. Most of the time for learning C++ is spent on learning how to overcome language limitations and idiosyncrasies, not how to solve real problems. |
Once again, consider this the other way around and it will be clear which one has more to overcome.
| Most of the time for learning C++ is spent on learning how to overcome language limitations and idiosyncrasies, not how to solve real problems. |
IMO You can only learn C++ if you make alot of mistakes and solve them yourself,
or learn from other people's solutions
Last edited on