A brief moment of group-congratulatory drivel and a kickstarter link
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Hello all.
I see you've noticed my soapbox.
This forum has been, and continues to be, one of the nicest forums I've ever been on, with a real lack of various despicable attitudes that elsewhere on the internet turn up as soon as certain kinds of people realise the anonymity gifted to them means they can express their true feelings.
As some of you may have seen, they're at it again, as described here: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/internet/2012/06/dear-internet-why-you-cant-have-anything-nice
and here:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/117848-Kickstarter-Video-Project-Attracts-Misogynist-Horde
(If you've never watched Yahtzee Croshaw's "Zero Punctuation" game reviews on EscapistMagazine.com, by the way, you've missed out - they're really quite funny and well worth watching)
If, like me, such things make you despair, this is one time you can actually do something about it, by donating to her kickstarter project. Obviously, only do so if you agree with her aims in said project; that's how it works.
I've chucked in my pennies.
Thanks for your time. Back to zany whackiness and C++.
I see you've noticed my soapbox.
This forum has been, and continues to be, one of the nicest forums I've ever been on, with a real lack of various despicable attitudes that elsewhere on the internet turn up as soon as certain kinds of people realise the anonymity gifted to them means they can express their true feelings.
As some of you may have seen, they're at it again, as described here: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/internet/2012/06/dear-internet-why-you-cant-have-anything-nice
and here:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/117848-Kickstarter-Video-Project-Attracts-Misogynist-Horde
(If you've never watched Yahtzee Croshaw's "Zero Punctuation" game reviews on EscapistMagazine.com, by the way, you've missed out - they're really quite funny and well worth watching)
If, like me, such things make you despair, this is one time you can actually do something about it, by donating to her kickstarter project. Obviously, only do so if you agree with her aims in said project; that's how it works.
I've chucked in my pennies.
Thanks for your time. Back to zany whackiness and C++.
Speaking of kickstarters and stuff, http://www.indiegogo.com/bearlovegood?c=home
tl;dr FunnyJunk is being stupid, The Oatmeal is trollin hard in response. (while donating to a good cause)
tl;dr FunnyJunk is being stupid, The Oatmeal is trollin hard in response. (while donating to a good cause)
| This forum has been, and continues to be, one of the nicest forums I've ever been on, with a real lack of various despicable attitudes that elsewhere on the internet turn up as soon as certain kinds of people realise the anonymity gifted to them means they can express their true feelings. |
I agree. Even within other forums of similar intent, I've seen unmatched levels of irresponsibility and arrogance. If not that, then those who are left let their own pride get to them. I'm glad that we've got our own little paradise and reprieve here.
| (If you've never watched Yahtzee Croshaw's "Zero Punctuation" game reviews on EscapistMagazine.com, by the way, you've missed out - they're really quite funny and well worth watching) |
As for the sexism, I'm pretty sure someone just threw that on 4chan and everyone had their way with it. I'd say about 40% true sexism and 60% trolling. But that estimate doesn't undermine what was said, or the damage dealt.
| I'd say about 40% true sexism and 60% trolling. |
I'm not convinced it's possible to separate the two quite so cleanly. You'd have to be a very dedicated troller to be able to express truly hateful things that didn't flow fluidly from your mind. Combine that with the immaturity and (frequently) poor ability to write coherently and correctly, which to my mind indicates that these are not very dedicated trollers, and I think that we're getting a look inside some very unpleasant minds. 4chan isn't just bronies :)
I suppose the estimate varies according to what sort of trolling we're each familiar with - I'm more accustomed to the type that purposely type like 10-year-olds, are entirely unreasonable, and sound like they've been held back on the middle school bus for a few years.
| I'm not convinced it's possible to separate the two quite so cleanly. You'd have to be a very dedicated troller to be able to express truly hateful things that didn't flow fluidly from your mind. |
I disagree. I'm 100% sure I could press out some grade-A misogyny trolling right now without believing a word of it myself.
I do, however, agree with the underlying thought: what does it matter? True sexism or "just trolling", the effect is the same.
I'm not a fan of internet mobbing. It has done a few good things (see SOPA), but many, many more bad things. I spend some time on Reddit every day, and I've seen how easy it is to aim 10k+ people at something they know nothing about. I can only imagine how many times worse it is on 4chan.
This kickstarter has much more than they need already (even bad mobbing has good side-effects for these kinds of initiatives), but I think something ought to be done for her personally. Even if it's "just the internet", this kind of shit will most likely take its toll on her personal life. Anyone have an idea what we could do?
| This forum has been, and continues to be, one of the nicest forums I've ever been on, with a real lack of various despicable attitudes that elsewhere on the internet turn up as soon as certain kinds of people realise the anonymity gifted to them means they can express their true feelings. |
That should be a crime! How dare they, offend strangers on the Internet!
| If, like me, such things make you despair, this is one time you can actually do something about it, by donating to her kickstarter project. |
Because donating my money will help change the world, for the better! Especially where it matters most, like in the Arab world.
| Obviously, only do so if you agree with her aims in said project; that's how it works. |
What are her aims exactly? Making males feel ashamed whenever a sexy female character appears in a video game? Because women are oh-so objectified in the virtual world? Boo hoo.
| What are her aims exactly? Making males feel ashamed whenever a sexy female character appears in a video game? Because women are oh-so objectified in the virtual world? Boo hoo. |
Dude, if you don't want to support that, then don't contribute. It's really that simple. Belittling her concerns because you don't share them says a lot more about you than those concerns.
| Making males feel ashamed whenever a sexy female character appears in a video game? |
That's not my take on what her aims are. I think you're choosing to portray yourself as a victim.
On a different note: why the hell does she need $6000 for 5 movies of 10~20 minutes? It's been bumped to 10 videos now, since she's at $90k now, but it's still ridiculous.
| Belittling her concerns because you don't share them says a lot more about you than those concerns. |
"Leave us alone, you brute."
| That's not my take on what her aims are. I think you're choosing to portray yourself as a victim. |
"You got it wrong. But instead of giving a better explanation, I'll just say you're playing victim, and reinforce my portrayal of you as an aggressor, and hater."
| why the hell does she need $6000 for 5 movies of 10~20 minutes? |
Seriously? "Why the hell"? Come on, think.
Hollywood habitually spends over a hundred million to generate something lasting 90 minutes or so; about the same amount of footage as she proposes. It's possibly to blow that six grand (and indeed, far far more) on a single session in the sound studio.
Equipment is expensive (so expensive, in fact, that most small production companies hire it rather than buy it). Look at this; hiring a Red costs upwards of 800 dollars a day. http://www.elysianpictures.com/red-rental.htm I could go on.
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Will her videos feature explosions? Helicopter fly-overs? Famous actors?
It's a woman staring at a screen and reading lines, probably with various footage from games. 99% of youtube is exactly that, for free. Yes, she needs a slightly better camera than the average vlogger, but I don't see the value of seeing a woman reading lines in HD.
Secondly, for something like this, you don't (or shouldn't) rent equipment. You hire time in a studio, which charges per hour. If she's a bit clever about it, she can do all her videos in 2~3 sessions.
Don't misunderstand the tone of my posts; I'm glad someone's doing this and if she hadn't reached her goal yet, I would've donated. I'm just curious about the amount. Compare it to, for example, justinguitar.com, where a guy made WEEKS worth of video lessons and charges exactly zero dollars. He doesn't have a million dollar camera, but I've never seen or heard anyone complain about the quality. And I dare say seeing proper finger positions is a tad more critical than seeing just how much cleavage Stereotypical Video Game Babe #12 is showing. Hell, high-quality pictures on the internet are available for free. Does it need to be live footage?
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@Catfish2: Don't be an idiot. It's a good cause and if you don't see that, I suggest you go to her youtube video and post kitchen/oven jokes like the rest of the people stuck in the dark ages.
It's a woman staring at a screen and reading lines, probably with various footage from games. 99% of youtube is exactly that, for free. Yes, she needs a slightly better camera than the average vlogger, but I don't see the value of seeing a woman reading lines in HD.
Secondly, for something like this, you don't (or shouldn't) rent equipment. You hire time in a studio, which charges per hour. If she's a bit clever about it, she can do all her videos in 2~3 sessions.
Don't misunderstand the tone of my posts; I'm glad someone's doing this and if she hadn't reached her goal yet, I would've donated. I'm just curious about the amount. Compare it to, for example, justinguitar.com, where a guy made WEEKS worth of video lessons and charges exactly zero dollars. He doesn't have a million dollar camera, but I've never seen or heard anyone complain about the quality. And I dare say seeing proper finger positions is a tad more critical than seeing just how much cleavage Stereotypical Video Game Babe #12 is showing. Hell, high-quality pictures on the internet are available for free. Does it need to be live footage?
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@Catfish2: Don't be an idiot. It's a good cause and if you don't see that, I suggest you go to her youtube video and post kitchen/oven jokes like the rest of the people stuck in the dark ages.
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Catfish2, you could have chosen to justify your opinions based on evidence or thought. Instead, you have chosen to repeat cliches; cliches that associate you with very unpleasant attitudes.
You have chosen to pretend that her aim is to make all men ashamed; the most cursory examination of her project makes it clear that this isn't so. You're not so stupid that you don't know this. So why pretend that you are? Seriously, you've demonstrated the capacity for rational thought many times. Why are you wrapping yourself in cliche (to the point of actually putting it in quote marks - is this some kind of ironic parody and I've missed the point, or are you so self-unaware that you don't see yourself parrotting cliche even as you do it?) instead of presenting an actual argument?
Edit: Gaminic, how about marketing? Maybe she wanted to drop a couple of grand on marketing. No point expressing herself if nobody ever sees it. There are a bazillion ways to spend six grand really quickly doing this. You could just ask - I've no doubt she's got a breakdown of estimated costs. She's probably got a lot of messages to answer at the minute, though.
You have chosen to pretend that her aim is to make all men ashamed; the most cursory examination of her project makes it clear that this isn't so. You're not so stupid that you don't know this. So why pretend that you are? Seriously, you've demonstrated the capacity for rational thought many times. Why are you wrapping yourself in cliche (to the point of actually putting it in quote marks - is this some kind of ironic parody and I've missed the point, or are you so self-unaware that you don't see yourself parrotting cliche even as you do it?) instead of presenting an actual argument?
Edit: Gaminic, how about marketing? Maybe she wanted to drop a couple of grand on marketing. No point expressing herself if nobody ever sees it. There are a bazillion ways to spend six grand really quickly doing this. You could just ask - I've no doubt she's got a breakdown of estimated costs. She's probably got a lot of messages to answer at the minute, though.
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I'm not 100% what her goal is here. What is the whole project trying to prove? Granted, I can't view the video right now as I'm at work, so maybe it's clarified in there.
Despite her goals (which I may or may not disagree with, depending on what they are), what I am 100% sure on is that she doesn't deserve such vitriol for this project.
Despite her goals (which I may or may not disagree with, depending on what they are), what I am 100% sure on is that she doesn't deserve such vitriol for this project.
| I am 100% sure on is that she doesn't deserve such vitriol for this project. |
I chucked in to a large extent because of the vitriol; the more of these people that turn up and advocate raping her for holding views they disagree with, the more that part of the gamer subculture gets dragged into view.
Yeah, it's a shame. There are nice pockets of gaming culture, good groups of good people having fun.
Unfortunately, what happens with gaming (and the internet in general) is people adopt the anonymity that comes with being online and assume that it abdicates all responsibilities and thus all consequences of their actions.
If YouTube (or whatever channel they used for unleashing the torrential abuse) required that your true identity was revealed when posting then you can bet that most of those comments wouldn't be there.
Fortunately, with all of the attention trolling has been given recently, it looks like we're heading in the right direction to get people prosecuted for such acts. Take a look at the student who made comments about footballer Fabrice Muamba's on-pitch collapse.
Unfortunately, what happens with gaming (and the internet in general) is people adopt the anonymity that comes with being online and assume that it abdicates all responsibilities and thus all consequences of their actions.
If YouTube (or whatever channel they used for unleashing the torrential abuse) required that your true identity was revealed when posting then you can bet that most of those comments wouldn't be there.
Fortunately, with all of the attention trolling has been given recently, it looks like we're heading in the right direction to get people prosecuted for such acts. Take a look at the student who made comments about footballer Fabrice Muamba's on-pitch collapse.
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Anyone who has been on XBox Live, male or female, knows that this hatred isn't reserved for women. It doesn't, therefore, need to be made into a sexism/misogyny issue. It's the individuals involved that are the problem, and it's the individuals that need to change, not the medium.
I have not been on XBOX Live, so I cannot comment on that. I can state that when I look through youtube comments, and much other such things, this sort of hatred is very heavily slanted towards women.
@Moschops
No, don't go there. That is one of the biggest atrocities in our world: we are paying people for them to tell us that we have to buy their products. It makes no sense and it really grinds my gears.
50% of the price we pay for an average product is used to recuperate the marketing costs of the product. Ever wondered why a bag of M&Ms costs the same as 5~6 loafs of bread, even though the production process is much, much cheaper? It's because you won't see bread on the television.
The same anti-logic is present in your statement: we, the people interested enough to sponsor for her project, are paying for her to get her product known to people who didn't pay? That makes zero sense. This is the internet age. You have a solid base of people who were interested in your idea and will follow up on it. If they like it enough, they'll inform others. Word of mouth is the single most powerful force on the internet. We are your marketing campaign. Don't make us pay for any futile attempt to get it out there any other way.
| Gaminic, how about marketing? Maybe she wanted to drop a couple of grand on marketing. No point expressing herself if nobody ever sees it. There are a bazillion ways to spend six grand really quickly doing this. |
No, don't go there. That is one of the biggest atrocities in our world: we are paying people for them to tell us that we have to buy their products. It makes no sense and it really grinds my gears.
50% of the price we pay for an average product is used to recuperate the marketing costs of the product. Ever wondered why a bag of M&Ms costs the same as 5~6 loafs of bread, even though the production process is much, much cheaper? It's because you won't see bread on the television.
The same anti-logic is present in your statement: we, the people interested enough to sponsor for her project, are paying for her to get her product known to people who didn't pay? That makes zero sense. This is the internet age. You have a solid base of people who were interested in your idea and will follow up on it. If they like it enough, they'll inform others. Word of mouth is the single most powerful force on the internet. We are your marketing campaign. Don't make us pay for any futile attempt to get it out there any other way.
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