Ive seen footage of american police, whats going on in america??
Is there some kind of military coo or are the cops going crazy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxlL0I5AWLI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxlL0I5AWLI
closed account (z05DSL3A)
| LB wrote: |
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| Corrupt Government. 'Nuff said. |
I don't see how bad policing comes from a corrupt government.
This bad policing is also not confined to the US of A.
You train the police in pain compliance in a 'safe' environment and they have to use it in the real world. Environmental factors, adrenaline, and psychopathy leads to escalation and people being out of control.
Those people are rioting, robbing, and murdering in the streets, and just generally behaving like uncivilized apes that just escaped the lab. How else to diffuse the situation without using military tactics?
closed account (13bSLyTq)
To be fair, we have no back story of what had happened before the incident. I do think some of the things done here are negative but you have to admit that these are only isolated incidents and this probably does not occur in every state police department every day.
Say if I said to a police officer "I had a weapon" or a bomb (but I dont) they would be free to take me out and arrest me and in other words even they could harm me in such circumstance but for the outside observer with no clue of what I had said or the camera not being able to hear my voice its impossible to tell what or why they had to take those precautionary measures.
Furthermore, if a police officer was charged with say, harm for no reason or something similar they would most likely be removed and face an hefty punishment perhaps even Jail-Time & will never be eligible for Police duty again.
As @knn9 said some of this is needed, if you had a knife and walking around, I'm pretty sure shooting or immobilizing the man is needed to ensure the life of 100+ people is safe and secure. This is barely even the tip of the iceberg.
If you visit countries like Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and other 3rd world nations there is barely such Human Rights, Taliban and other terrorist groups patrol the streets and kill if you do wrong action according to Sharia Law, infact if you get caught stealing your hands will be chopped off which is far more serious than the videos we see, or if you take drugs you will be faced with death penalty so you have to really consider that before comparing and calling US government corrupt, and the worst thing in those countries is the Government cannot lay a finger on the perpetrator whereas US at least does an investigation and most the time they are caught and are punished.
But do be aware I am against some of the acts but overall you guys should be glad that at-least police do protect people maybe not always in the most safest way but they get the job done and safeguard your life. I am not from US but rather from UK but nevertheless we should be glad that at least the majority of the population (99.9999%) lives without fear of being killed, unlike in the 3rd world or even developing countries such as India, Pakistan where bribing can be put into action to prevent crime investigation from running smoothly without wrong\false results.
Say if I said to a police officer "I had a weapon" or a bomb (but I dont) they would be free to take me out and arrest me and in other words even they could harm me in such circumstance but for the outside observer with no clue of what I had said or the camera not being able to hear my voice its impossible to tell what or why they had to take those precautionary measures.
Furthermore, if a police officer was charged with say, harm for no reason or something similar they would most likely be removed and face an hefty punishment perhaps even Jail-Time & will never be eligible for Police duty again.
As @knn9 said some of this is needed, if you had a knife and walking around, I'm pretty sure shooting or immobilizing the man is needed to ensure the life of 100+ people is safe and secure. This is barely even the tip of the iceberg.
If you visit countries like Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and other 3rd world nations there is barely such Human Rights, Taliban and other terrorist groups patrol the streets and kill if you do wrong action according to Sharia Law, infact if you get caught stealing your hands will be chopped off which is far more serious than the videos we see, or if you take drugs you will be faced with death penalty so you have to really consider that before comparing and calling US government corrupt, and the worst thing in those countries is the Government cannot lay a finger on the perpetrator whereas US at least does an investigation and most the time they are caught and are punished.
But do be aware I am against some of the acts but overall you guys should be glad that at-least police do protect people maybe not always in the most safest way but they get the job done and safeguard your life. I am not from US but rather from UK but nevertheless we should be glad that at least the majority of the population (99.9999%) lives without fear of being killed, unlike in the 3rd world or even developing countries such as India, Pakistan where bribing can be put into action to prevent crime investigation from running smoothly without wrong\false results.
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| knn9 wrote: |
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| Those people are rioting, robbing, and murdering in the streets, and just generally behaving like uncivilized apes that just escaped the lab. |
What are you talking about? Are you talking about Ferguson? Because if so that is a completely misinformed (and extremely racist) comment.
But Ferguson is another topic. I'll restrain my comments to OP's video and general US police tactics.
OP's video showed people being forcibly pinned down while repeatedly kicked/struck/beaten by other cops. I don't care what the criminal did, there is no justification for that. Once you have them subdued, that should be the end of it. Additional violence is not only inhuman and indefensible, but should result in you quite literally getting kicked off the force and thrown in jail yourself.
What we need to do is make it a requirement that police are constantly filmed (ie, cameras on their uniform recording everything they do). This was actually done in one city, and it was remarkably effective:
http://online.wsj.com/articles/what-happens-when-police-officers-wear-body-cameras-1408320244
In the first year, use of police force when down 60% and the number of complaints against police went down 88%.
| OrionMaster wrote: |
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| you have to admit that these are only isolated incidents and this probably does not occur in every state police department every day. |
It happens a lot more than you think. I know it's easy to give the police the benefit of the doubt... but it's easy for me because I'm white (and I'm assuming you're white as well, based on this post).
Law enforcement in the US has been proven again and again that it (in general) is extremely racist, and that being black not only makes you a suspect, but also makes you prone to be the victim of police assault, even if you're innocent. Being pulled over and/or hassled by the police for no reason is a reality that pretty much every black person in America has to deal with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-ckDJ3xTaE
| Furthermore, if a police officer was charged with say, harm for no reason or something similar they would most likely be removed and face an hefty punishment perhaps even Jail-Time & will never be eligible for Police duty again. |
They should be... unfortunately this almost never happens in the US. Cops very rarely get arrested for anything.
| As @knn9 said some of this is needed, if you had a knife and walking around, I'm pretty sure shooting or immobilizing the man is needed to ensure the life of 100+ people is safe and secure. This is barely even the tip of the iceberg. |
If someone is wielding a weapon, you have your gun drawn and you tell them to drop it.
If they don't, and if they continue to be threatening, yes... the police should be able to shoot.
If the criminal drops the knife and surrenders... that is the end of it. The police ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT proceed to shooot/beat/taze the criminal. The danger has already been averted. There is no need for violence. It's completely unacceptable.
| But do be aware I am against some of the acts but overall you guys should be glad that at-least police do protect people maybe not always in the most safest way but they get the job done and safeguard your life. |
There's a balance between safety and oppression. The US police force is getting more and more extreme.
On top of virtually never being held accountable for excessive force, police are getting handed down surplus military equipment from the government. They're becoming less like a police force and more like an army -- only they're not as well trained, more violent, more racist, and more dangerous.
Watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUdHIatS36A
I'm certainly not saying police are bad... and I'm not saying that we'd be better off without them. Obviously having police is a good thing. But they're stepping over the line. There need to be consequences for that.
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closed account (13bSLyTq)
@Disch
I have nothing to say because after all, I'm guessing you live there and since I'm living in London, UK I cannot talk about things I don't know well enough about.
However I don't think or even would say US police force as "oppressing" the public keeping in mind, oppression is something vastly different in-fact even a lot of Chinese tourists, immigrants don't even agree with the fact China oppresses a lot of their treatment. Other example: Afghanistan, India, Pakistan, Iraq, Somalia, Ghana (With its Homophobic Laws).
To be fair, China does breach far more Human Rights than US has ever done (including Guantanamo Bay). That said, If they barely complain about that sort of things I'm pretty sure US is not considered to be oppressors in eyes of the International Community let alone by a lot of their own population either, if US was such an oppressive country why would immigration from rest-of-the-globe be done in US at such an massive scale.
Next, US does have great security in terms that they do protect a large majority of the population unlike in countries like India, China where investigations & court cases take Decades to just get processed and by that time most of the evidence is either missing or lost or changed by the perpetrators, keeping in mind also the Judges are seemingly bribed into being biased which again is much worse than the States where its difficult to bribe.
I have nothing to say because after all, I'm guessing you live there and since I'm living in London, UK I cannot talk about things I don't know well enough about.
However I don't think or even would say US police force as "oppressing" the public keeping in mind, oppression is something vastly different in-fact even a lot of Chinese tourists, immigrants don't even agree with the fact China oppresses a lot of their treatment. Other example: Afghanistan, India, Pakistan, Iraq, Somalia, Ghana (With its Homophobic Laws).
To be fair, China does breach far more Human Rights than US has ever done (including Guantanamo Bay). That said, If they barely complain about that sort of things I'm pretty sure US is not considered to be oppressors in eyes of the International Community let alone by a lot of their own population either, if US was such an oppressive country why would immigration from rest-of-the-globe be done in US at such an massive scale.
Next, US does have great security in terms that they do protect a large majority of the population unlike in countries like India, China where investigations & court cases take Decades to just get processed and by that time most of the evidence is either missing or lost or changed by the perpetrators, keeping in mind also the Judges are seemingly bribed into being biased which again is much worse than the States where its difficult to bribe.
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@OrionMaster:
I don't mean to downplay the problems of other nations. Nor do I mean to compare the US's problems with the problems of other nations.
And in fact... doing so is folly.
When you are faced with a problem, the right thing to do is not look at other people who have a more severe version of that problem and say "oh well, at least I'm not them". The right thing to do is stand up and find a solution to the problem.
If we only ever "look down" to see how good we have it... then we can never make things better... we can only make them worse (or at best, keep them the same).
So I say we shouldn't be comparing the US to China and saying the US really has it good. Instead.... we should be comparing the US to what would be ideal and say how the US can make things even better.
You should do the same with the UK. If you're unhappy with something in your government, don't make excuses for them ---- put a spotlight on it and get it addressed.
I don't mean to downplay the problems of other nations. Nor do I mean to compare the US's problems with the problems of other nations.
And in fact... doing so is folly.
When you are faced with a problem, the right thing to do is not look at other people who have a more severe version of that problem and say "oh well, at least I'm not them". The right thing to do is stand up and find a solution to the problem.
If we only ever "look down" to see how good we have it... then we can never make things better... we can only make them worse (or at best, keep them the same).
So I say we shouldn't be comparing the US to China and saying the US really has it good. Instead.... we should be comparing the US to what would be ideal and say how the US can make things even better.
You should do the same with the UK. If you're unhappy with something in your government, don't make excuses for them ---- put a spotlight on it and get it addressed.
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Regarding the video, you can cherry-pick movie clips to make any argument you want.
Regarding the Ferguson issue, to be honest, it's more media hype than anything else. Race issues are so explosive, and get such high ratings, that they will over-dramatize events to such an extreme level, in order to fuel the fire/ratings. There are plenty of murders from an array of different races that never get reported/heard of simply because they wouldn't provide good ratings.
Regarding the Ferguson issue, to be honest, it's more media hype than anything else. Race issues are so explosive, and get such high ratings, that they will over-dramatize events to such an extreme level, in order to fuel the fire/ratings. There are plenty of murders from an array of different races that never get reported/heard of simply because they wouldn't provide good ratings.
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You can't judge a country based off biased videos and videos of excessive actions due to crooked people.
| leo255 wrote: |
|---|
| Regarding the video, you can cherry-pick movie clips to make any argument you want. |
I think the point was that it's not uncommon in the US for police to overstep their authority. Are you suggesting that point is untrue?
| Regarding the Ferguson issue, to be honest, it's more media hype than anything else. |
That's insane. I won't say the media isn't hyping it... but Ferguson is a huge deal. The protests have been going on for nearly 2 weeks and don't show any sign of slowing down. In fact it's only been escalating. Ferguson has almost become a war zone.
What makes it particularly crazy is how blatant the police have been with excessive force and overreaching their authority... not only during the protests, but also in the events leading up to them.
Disch, you seem to be the only one that sees the problem. Race is a large factor, but it is not the only one. For a time the local Sheriffs here targeted old trucks to pull over as an example. That did not generally involve the violence, but it shows their biased view towards the people of the county as a whole.
As for the video, there was one scene where there was a car chase ending with the guy being chased rolling his car and getting tossed out the window in the process. Before his car stopped moving four officers had pounced on him and where beating him. They were not restraining him nor did they even stop to see if me was alive, let alone conscience. Regardless of being taken out of context, there is no way to view that as other than being excessive.
If the police are so upstanding, why do they object so much to having their actions video taped? They are quite fond of videos when it comes to proving a case against criminals. They are fond of them when they are cherry-picked for things like the TV show Cops and much of that bordered on excessiveness. If they are really doing nothing wrong then why should they feel any more threatened than the alleged criminals they happily video?
As for the video, there was one scene where there was a car chase ending with the guy being chased rolling his car and getting tossed out the window in the process. Before his car stopped moving four officers had pounced on him and where beating him. They were not restraining him nor did they even stop to see if me was alive, let alone conscience. Regardless of being taken out of context, there is no way to view that as other than being excessive.
If the police are so upstanding, why do they object so much to having their actions video taped? They are quite fond of videos when it comes to proving a case against criminals. They are fond of them when they are cherry-picked for things like the TV show Cops and much of that bordered on excessiveness. If they are really doing nothing wrong then why should they feel any more threatened than the alleged criminals they happily video?
This cop points his gun directly at a protester and says "I'm going to fucking kill you":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zbR824FKpU
Another cop stepped in and told him to cool it. Progress, I suppose.
EDIT:
This woman was shot in the head. The police confiscate the bullet after it's removed, yet don't have anything on record and no investigation into the shooting. Her attorney has been trying for days to find out who took the bullet and/or where it is to no avail:
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2014/08/mya_aaten-white_shooting_victim_from_aug_12_says_police_have_not_interviewed_her.php
Now granted it might just be that the police are swamped... but how do you lose a bullet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zbR824FKpU
Another cop stepped in and told him to cool it. Progress, I suppose.
EDIT:
This woman was shot in the head. The police confiscate the bullet after it's removed, yet don't have anything on record and no investigation into the shooting. Her attorney has been trying for days to find out who took the bullet and/or where it is to no avail:
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2014/08/mya_aaten-white_shooting_victim_from_aug_12_says_police_have_not_interviewed_her.php
Now granted it might just be that the police are swamped... but how do you lose a bullet?
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I agree. Cops are assholes.
Me and my friend were almost arrested for being on a walk at 8:30, and it was still light out, mind you.
Me and my friend were almost arrested for being on a walk at 8:30, and it was still light out, mind you.
I'm not trying to say that cops are assholes. It's just that some of them overreach their authority... and when they do, there are no consequences.
Ferguson seems to be worse than most. It's kind of an extreme example... which is probably why the protests have gained such strong momentum.
Ferguson seems to be worse than most. It's kind of an extreme example... which is probably why the protests have gained such strong momentum.
There are people who become police officers who genuinely want to serve and protect.
Unfortunately, there is no way of knowing who are joining just for the power it gives. A quote comes to mind in this regard: "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."
I know several police officers due to my father's murder and some trouble my little sister got into during middle school. All of them have a spotless records and numerous commendations between them.
Again, you can't judge all cops based off a few bad ones. For example, my cousin thinks all programmers are jobless guys who sit at home with their families just because I am a stay at home dad taking care of my special needs wife and son, but he clumps all programmers into the assumption erroneously.
Unfortunately, there is no way of knowing who are joining just for the power it gives. A quote comes to mind in this regard: "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."
I know several police officers due to my father's murder and some trouble my little sister got into during middle school. All of them have a spotless records and numerous commendations between them.
Again, you can't judge all cops based off a few bad ones. For example, my cousin thinks all programmers are jobless guys who sit at home with their families just because I am a stay at home dad taking care of my special needs wife and son, but he clumps all programmers into the assumption erroneously.
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