YAMT
closed account (1yvXoG1T)
@tition
I'm sorry to inform you but you have failed. That wasn't heavy, it was just irritating. helios had it right about the drummer @_@
Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to introduce you to some truly heavy metal with vocals that actually go along with the instruments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-x95Q0SJfY
0:28 is one of my favorite moments in metal history.
I'm sorry to inform you but you have failed. That wasn't heavy, it was just irritating. helios had it right about the drummer @_@
Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to introduce you to some truly heavy metal with vocals that actually go along with the instruments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-x95Q0SJfY
0:28 is one of my favorite moments in metal history.
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How do those vocals go along with the instruments any more than Corpsegrinder's?
Edit: Also, that guy uses inhaled growls. Inhaled growls are an automatic fail in my book.
Edit: Also, that guy uses inhaled growls. Inhaled growls are an automatic fail in my book.
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Sorry for the late reply. I'm trying to handle two arguments at once.
But you then say
Isn't that contradictory? You're saying that as long as a sound has rhythm, it can be understood as music, but rain, which has rhythm, is not music?
I don't see a problem with this, personally. You get to know the words eventually (it's sort of like a challange), and you can look most of them up on the internet/in albums. The only band I know which doesn't allow its fans to find out the lyrics to its songs is Gorgoroth, and that's because their vocalist thinks that writing words down makes them lose their "value" (I don't get it either).
I don't get that. It seems to match well enough for me...
This is actually intentional, especially in black metal. It's referred to as "necro sound". Basically, the point is to make it sound as horrific as possible. Your voice becomes that of a person being burned alive (listen to War by Burzum or Deathcrush by Mayhem and you'll see what I mean).
I think the reason I like black and death metal is the intensity. It's very loud, very harsh, and very heavy. I don't think the intensity of growled vocals can be matched by sung ones.
| helios wrote: |
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| think the key element a sound needs to have to be universally understood as being music is rhythm. There needs to be some sort of recognizable pattern to the sound |
But you then say
| helios wrote: |
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| Now imagine rain. While that sound can be pleasing, it's still not music because there's half a million drops hitting half a million surfaces at the same time. It's noise. Entirely different to two streams falling onto two different surfaces at regular intervals: tok-tok-tok-tak-tok-tok-tok-tak. |
Isn't that contradictory? You're saying that as long as a sound has rhythm, it can be understood as music, but rain, which has rhythm, is not music?
| helios wrote: |
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| To answer your first question more directly, to me there are two very important aspects to vocals |
| helios wrote: |
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| being able to more or less understand when they're saying (at the very least phonetically) |
I don't see a problem with this, personally. You get to know the words eventually (it's sort of like a challange), and you can look most of them up on the internet/in albums. The only band I know which doesn't allow its fans to find out the lyrics to its songs is Gorgoroth, and that's because their vocalist thinks that writing words down makes them lose their "value" (I don't get it either).
| helios wrote: |
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| matching the music |
I don't get that. It seems to match well enough for me...
| helios wrote: |
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| It doesn't sound like sounds a human being would make, and it always seems to me like the singer is singing to a completely different tun |
This is actually intentional, especially in black metal. It's referred to as "necro sound". Basically, the point is to make it sound as horrific as possible. Your voice becomes that of a person being burned alive (listen to War by Burzum or Deathcrush by Mayhem and you'll see what I mean).
I think the reason I like black and death metal is the intensity. It's very loud, very harsh, and very heavy. I don't think the intensity of growled vocals can be matched by sung ones.
| You're saying that as long as a sound has rhythm, it can be understood as music, but rain, which has rhythm, is not music? |
| "necro sound" |
But, hey, YMMV.
| helios wrote: |
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| *Closes hand around invisible cylinder, then performs a back and forth motion longitudinal to it* |
What does that have to do with necro-sound?
| Wikipedia wrote: |
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| Necro may refer to: * necro-, the Greek prefix meaning death |
This is what I was referring to. It literally means "death sound". The point is that it sounds like death.
closed account (1yvXoG1T)
| How do those vocals go along with the instruments any more than Corpsegrinder's? |
From what I've gathered from Cannibal Corpse is that Corpsegrinder growls in his same monotone-typewriter death metal rhythm, regardless of what the instruments are doing. In the event of JFAC, he changes his pitch, speed, and rhythm along with the instruments.
Note: He doesn't do inhales. Those are called fry vocals. But I'd rather not traverse the ongoing war of inhale vs. exhale
| helios wrote: |
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| I know my Greek prefixes and suffixes. |
I'm sure you do.
| neurotrace wrote: |
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| From what I've gathered from Cannibal Corpse is that Corpsegrinder growls in his same monotone-typewriter death metal rhythm, regardless of what the instruments are doing |
See, I used to think the same, but he does actually vary it somewhat. In Pounded Into Dust ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duiqOGTkkoA ) for example; listen to the chorus. I originally didn't like his vocals but I got into it eventually. I think death metal and black metal are like that - they're both rather unconventional, it's kind of an acquired taste.
| neurotrace wrote: |
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| Note: He doesn't do inhales. Those are called fry vocals. |
I'm fairly sure those are inhaled growls. I'm fairly sure it's not a vocal fry; vocal fry is usually very low pitched. Starting at 00:12, he definitely inhales. He seems to switch between inhalation and exhalation, which I've not heard before. I don't really like it though; I hate the sound inhaled vocals make for some reason.
This is vocal fry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P74x3D4NOuk
If you push more air through your throat while doing that, you get the low guttural sound (like when a dog growls).
| neurotrace wrote: |
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| I'd rather not traverse the ongoing war of inhale vs. exhale |
Ok, let's say no more on the subject.
closed account (1yvXoG1T)
I would definitely agree it's an acquired taste and right now I'm still very picky on my death/black metal. As soon as they start to get more in to the grind metal sound then it starts to turn me off.
I may very well be in error as far as whether he is inhaling or exhaling, that's just how it appears to me. My final note over that is I like the sound of inhales when used properly (example of overuse of standard inhale technique: early Atreyu) but I have much more respect for those who can exhale.
I've tried my hand at screaming for the last couple years and, with the exception of a high-pitched scream in the same vein as Psyclon Nine, my exhales are pathetic. Inhales are decent but anyone can inhale scream so I don't even consider them.
I may very well be in error as far as whether he is inhaling or exhaling, that's just how it appears to me. My final note over that is I like the sound of inhales when used properly (example of overuse of standard inhale technique: early Atreyu) but I have much more respect for those who can exhale.
I've tried my hand at screaming for the last couple years and, with the exception of a high-pitched scream in the same vein as Psyclon Nine, my exhales are pathetic. Inhales are decent but anyone can inhale scream so I don't even consider them.
Umm, the 4-5 cannibal corpse compositions that I have heard I do not find to be heavy at all.
Once you get used the pitch/side noise of the vocals of a heavy metal vocal, it doesn't sound heavy at all. Not to mention that grunting/screaming like that is not impressive at all (anyone could do it (as anyone who's been at a metal concert knows), although it would probably damage one's vocal cords in the long run).
I find that the vocals in the Behold the Arctopus's piece (the one I suggested) are better than those of Cannibal Corpse's piece.
[Edit:]
This is one extra funny "heavy piece" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InZNBcJTmWs
(the title of the video is "ernie goes brutal". The title of the "music" is "A Divine Proclamation for Finishing the Present Existance", "performed" by the band "Last Days of Humanity".)
Once you get used the pitch/side noise of the vocals of a heavy metal vocal, it doesn't sound heavy at all. Not to mention that grunting/screaming like that is not impressive at all (anyone could do it (as anyone who's been at a metal concert knows), although it would probably damage one's vocal cords in the long run).
I find that the vocals in the Behold the Arctopus's piece (the one I suggested) are better than those of Cannibal Corpse's piece.
[Edit:]
This is one extra funny "heavy piece" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InZNBcJTmWs
(the title of the video is "ernie goes brutal". The title of the "music" is "A Divine Proclamation for Finishing the Present Existance", "performed" by the band "Last Days of Humanity".)
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| neurotrace wrote: |
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| I would definitely agree it's an acquired taste and right now I'm still very picky on my death/black metal. As soon as they start to get more in to the grind metal sound then it starts to turn me off. |
Ahhh, Napalm Death and Carcass were my way into death/black metal, and they're both quite grindcore-esque bands; so I guess that is why I like what you call grind metal sound.
| neurotrace wrote: |
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| I may very well be in error as far as whether he is inhaling or exhaling, that's just how it appears to me. My final note over that is I like the sound of inhales when used properly (example of overuse of standard inhale technique: early Atreyu) but I have much more respect for those who can exhale. |
Fair enough. It really does sound like
| neurotrace wrote: |
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| I've tried my hand at screaming for the last couple years and, with the exception of a high-pitched scream in the same vein as Psyclon Nine, my exhales are pathetic. |
I've been growling for a few weeks; I've found three different voices I can do (kind of like how you have "head resonace" and "chest resonance" in melodic singing). I can make a low, guttural sound (vocal fry), one which sounds like Abbath from Immortal, and a higher one that can sound like Shagrath from Dimmu Borgir, or the vocalist of Carcass.
I'm also trying to figure out how to do "cookie monster vocals" (like Corpsegrinder), very high pitched vocals (like Pest from Gorgoroth (listen to "Open the Gates", the vocals are ridiculously high)), the weird "shriek" that Varg Vikernes from Burzum and Maniac from Mayhem make, and the singing/growling thing Alexi Laiho (Children of Bodom) does.
| tition wrote: |
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| grunting/screaming like that is not impressive at all (anyone could do it (as anyone who's been at a metal concert knows) |
Bull. It takes a lot of practice (as anyone whose tried to do proper growls knows) to learn how to do it well. Anyone can do it, it's true, but if you don't learn how to do it properly and try to make the sound with the wrong set of vocal cords, you can really mess up your voice (listen to Corpsegrinder's speaking voice; he's had surgery 3 times).
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| Bull. It takes a lot of practice |
fair enough.
| (listen to Corpsegrinder's speaking voice; he's had surgery 3 times). |
ahem... maybe it is not the best thing to do then - why not without vocals?
I think Corpsegrinder was doing it wrong, that's why he had surgery. That's what I heard, anyway.
closed account (1yvXoG1T)
| I think Corpsegrinder was doing it wrong, that's why he had surgery. That's what I heard, anyway. |
I heard that as well. Too bad for him that he was before Melissa Cross. My only issue with Melissa Cross' work is that she appeals more toward the metalcore/hardcore-type screams and doesn't get much in to the deep, bowel-shaking growls of death metal. But is there a way to get that kind of depth without scraping up your throat? I can only get one that doesn't hurt to last for a couple seconds.
So nobody is into alternative, classic rock, or anything but metal around here, eh? :)
Yep, it's called heavy drinking. That's not even a joke. Bon Scott of AC/DC used to drink hard liquor before to get his voice that gravelly feel. Of course he was also just an alcoholic and died by choking on his own vomit when he fell asleep in a friend's car...
| But is there a way to get that kind of depth without scraping up your throat? |
Yep, it's called heavy drinking. That's not even a joke. Bon Scott of AC/DC used to drink hard liquor before to get his voice that gravelly feel. Of course he was also just an alcoholic and died by choking on his own vomit when he fell asleep in a friend's car...
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I'm a definite Techno/Trance fan. I'm also into electropop such as Daft Punk (I'm French as well which probably makes me biased). I find Rock boring, ANY type of Rock. Jazz, classical and the like are ok, I prefer techno though. I abhor Metal and Screamo and anything like them. That about covers my tastes in music :)
closed account (1yvXoG1T)
| Bon Scott of AC/DC used to drink hard liquor before to get his voice that gravelly feel. |
Yeah, I can believe that. I'm pretty sure Amon Amarth has a similar technique (those guys drink hardcore, see "Giant Horn Filled With Beer")
I can definitely appreciate electronic music. As I stated in my first post here one of my current addictions is Juno Reactor, which is sort of trance/world music. Would you suggest any artists? I'm still trying to discover some more techno.
Oh, by the way, Dubstep is awesome. Just saying.
Well, if you like techno, I've already suggested Daft Punk. I would get on Youtube and look up a guy named Spac3Trance. I believe he also has a website (same name). He has a ton of music on his channel and site. He doesn't make it he just makes it available. He is a definite must for Techno and Trance. Shouldn't be too hard to find him. The stuff he uploads is simply mind-blowing. He also has 2 75 min. songs on his website available for free download which are just AMAZING. I would look into that.
Daft Punk - Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2cYWfq--Nw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2cYWfq--Nw
| MottMan wrote: |
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| died by choking on his own vomit when he fell asleep in a friend's car... |
I thought it was a taxi, but maybe not. AC/DC's current vocalist is awful IMO.
| neurotrace wrote: |
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| is there a way to get that kind of depth without scraping up your throat? I can only get one that doesn't hurt to last for a couple seconds. |
I don't know; my singing voice is baritone (I think), but when I growl, it's mid-high pitched. I can't really do the low growls too much. I can sort of do a vocal fry but it's not very good. The kind of pitch of mine is something like Jeffrey Walker (Carcass), Abbath (Immortal) or Shagrath (Dimmu Borgir).