i think i did a fine job of programing those voting machines, what do you think
oh yeah obama isnt doing anything like the nhs, seems like if you can pay you will and if you cant you get a bit of help so you dont lose everything.
There were riots in the UK last year, the government blamed it on gangs, but ask any one affiliated they say it was like gang utopia, they were helping each other rob stores the government didnt want to admit that it had anything to do with social unrest (its a riot and the papers hade common folk believe it wasnt social unrest...it was a riot it is social unrest)
and most of the public completely bought it baring a few exceptions most of the rioters were 16 to 25 and no one particular race (theres always those losers who want it to have been immigrants) interestingly most of them on the dole (getting benefits) you see these guys you wonder how on earth they pay for their kit, they are worth a couple of thousand in clothes and technology and these guys go without food somedays.
how do they afford it, poor kids without good opportunities are the best opportunists among us they steal, mug and deal drugs and they are good at it, this is what happens when the government couldnt provide anywhere in history, peasants organise themselves into something that can cope the alternatives for these guys are macdonalds and benefits, and these people think theyre better than these oppertunities wether we like it or not.
Its funny too cos anyone who talks about the riot (rightly) gets riled up, they say there was no reason for the riot it was just a bunch of opportunists taking advantage, and they dont realize that the opportunists were a result of poor oportunities.
my point is there is a good argument for handouts where there is no alternative, however better management and opportunities would be far far greater, conservatives see this as a waste of money.
they also believe that poor mothers have kids so as to live off child support money so they are cutting it, i dont believe it will change anything because socialogy has allways said people have MORE kids when they are poor (i dont know why)
thats why i think the right wing is completley insane, they think that building up skills and providing opportunities isnt the way to go, how can you be a leader and think that you can run a country by ignoring sociology, economics and basic humanity?
There were riots in the UK last year, the government blamed it on gangs, but ask any one affiliated they say it was like gang utopia, they were helping each other rob stores the government didnt want to admit that it had anything to do with social unrest (its a riot and the papers hade common folk believe it wasnt social unrest...it was a riot it is social unrest)
and most of the public completely bought it baring a few exceptions most of the rioters were 16 to 25 and no one particular race (theres always those losers who want it to have been immigrants) interestingly most of them on the dole (getting benefits) you see these guys you wonder how on earth they pay for their kit, they are worth a couple of thousand in clothes and technology and these guys go without food somedays.
how do they afford it, poor kids without good opportunities are the best opportunists among us they steal, mug and deal drugs and they are good at it, this is what happens when the government couldnt provide anywhere in history, peasants organise themselves into something that can cope the alternatives for these guys are macdonalds and benefits, and these people think theyre better than these oppertunities wether we like it or not.
Its funny too cos anyone who talks about the riot (rightly) gets riled up, they say there was no reason for the riot it was just a bunch of opportunists taking advantage, and they dont realize that the opportunists were a result of poor oportunities.
my point is there is a good argument for handouts where there is no alternative, however better management and opportunities would be far far greater, conservatives see this as a waste of money.
they also believe that poor mothers have kids so as to live off child support money so they are cutting it, i dont believe it will change anything because socialogy has allways said people have MORE kids when they are poor (i dont know why)
thats why i think the right wing is completley insane, they think that building up skills and providing opportunities isnt the way to go, how can you be a leader and think that you can run a country by ignoring sociology, economics and basic humanity?
| devonrevenge wrote: |
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| socialogy has allways said people have MORE kids when they are poor (i dont know why) |
Not sure what the relation is in 1st world countries, but I know that people having mass amounts of kids in 3rd world countries is often associated with a lack of education. They don't realize at the time that child care is very expensive and more kids means less money. I'm not sure such a lack of education is even possible anymore in 1st world countries, as even the worst of public schools still teach those basic concepts.
| chrisname wrote: |
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| You could very easily have a society without an upper class or a middle class. |
Not so at all. Do you honestly think that someone would start a business and later on settle for the same pay that his newest employees get? What about highly educated jobs, such as lawyers and doctors? Do you think that people would go to school for 6 to 20 years and pay through the nose just so they could have the same pay as a cashier? A society without doctors would not be good for the people living there (although one without lawyers would likely be better :p), and a society without entrepreneurs would not have any companies for the working class to work in. People who put in more get more, otherwise why the hell else would they put in more?
| devonrevenge wrote: |
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| thats why i think the right wing is completley insane, they think that building up skills and providing opportunities isnt the way to go, how can you be a leader and think that you can run a country by ignoring sociology, economics and basic humanity? |
How has the right wing withheld opportunities from anyone? How have they prevented anyone from building up their skills? If anything the left wing is preventing the building of skills (referring to the bill that would have the government pay for illegal immigrants to go to college while our own citizens struggle to pay for it and go into massive debt that follows them their entire life). And the right wing thinking that parents have more kids to get more tax breaks is based on the general abuse of most welfare systems (including tax returns for children). I think social welfare programs are wonderful, but I think there need to be much stricter requirements in place to prevent them being taken advantage of. I have several "U.S. left" wing friends who agree with me on this.
| I know that people having mass amounts of kids in 3rd world countries is often associated with a lack of education. |
I think this is mixing correlation for causation. There's a better correlation between the chances of someone's siblings having died in childhood and the number of children that person has. Put simply, if children die easily, people have lots. Societies that have better education tend to have lower child mortality rates.
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ModShop, you are grossly overestimating the abuse. It already is not easy to get welfare, food stamps, etc.. making requirements stricter may prevent some abuse but it will also prevent people who need the services from getting them.
What bill is suggesting paying for illegal immigrants to go to college?
What bill is suggesting paying for illegal immigrants to go to college?
| Just how many people have had their opinion of the PPACA set by FUDmongers and media sound bites? |
Not I. I'm one of those guys who researches his topics obsessively and checks sources until I reach as close to an original as I can. I actually read the PPACA. Not that all of it was comprehendable. I am not a lawyer :P
Anyways. Maybe we wouldn't have so many people on welfare if minimum wage was nationally set at an amount where it can do what it's meant to.
I feel that if someone is receiving welfare they should have to work a government run job (trash collector, mail person, road worker, etc) until they can find a a job that will pay them enough to get off welfare.
As for seeing people on welfare with fancy stuff that people who can't afford necessities shouldn't buy, it is not fair to assume that every single one of them went out and spent welfare check money on those things.
closed account (1yR4jE8b)
| I feel that if someone is receiving welfare they should have to work a government run job (trash collector, mail person, road worker, etc) until they can find a a job that will pay them enough to get off welfare. |
You say this as-if you think government workers don't get paid or something.
| You say this as-if you think government workers don't get paid or something. |
That's not how I intended it to sound.
cos modshop, poor people cant afford education/education system doesnt favour poor, and thats fine darkestfright so long as it works out they get above the minimum wage,
nah for some reason if someone has less oppertunities they have more children, wealth and babies correlate roughly the same in 1st and 3rd world countries the same based on average wealth
nah for some reason if someone has less oppertunities they have more children, wealth and babies correlate roughly the same in 1st and 3rd world countries the same based on average wealth
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| Cheraphy wrote: |
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| it is not fair to assume that every single one of them went out and spent welfare check money on those things. |
If they are on welfare, how do they have hundreds of dollars laying around to buy all of those things? Poor money management is not solved by giving them more money to poorly spend. All of those gadgets also have expensive monthly costs associated as well.
@ModShop
Maybe your perspective is tinted if many of the people you know that receive social services are abusing the system, but I can assure you they are the minority. Have you ever looked into the process of getting/keeping welfare (and other services)? People receive it because they earn below the poverty level, that doesn't mean they can't save or earn extra some weeks for a few luxuries.
Maybe your perspective is tinted if many of the people you know that receive social services are abusing the system, but I can assure you they are the minority. Have you ever looked into the process of getting/keeping welfare (and other services)? People receive it because they earn below the poverty level, that doesn't mean they can't save or earn extra some weeks for a few luxuries.
a lot of people decide there is no jobs (barring the worst ones) and deal them drugs or stand on a street corner or take a gun to a booze store, society blames the individual and in rarer cases than you would think it is genuinely the fault of the individual.x cons in america they have a HUGE re-offending rate, sure that would be lower if people would employ them.
look at e
and i notice the poorer you are the hungrier you go to in order to dress like a king.
look at e
and i notice the poorer you are the hungrier you go to in order to dress like a king.
closed account (3qX21hU5)
Naraku I think what modshop means is there are quite a few people that use social services in ways they are not intended. I was on EBT about 3 years ago before I got my shit together. I was still living with my parents which were making decent money, at least enough to put a roof over our heads and keep food on the table. Even with me living with my parents I was able to get a EBT card, all I had to do is sit in line for a couple hours then when they called my name I just went up there and told the lady I wanted food stamps. She didn't ask why I needed them, Didn't ask if I had a job, she didn't even check what my circumstances were (I didn't need EBT since I was living with my parents). She just gave me the EBT card ($240 a month) and told me I was getting state healthcare to without me even asking for it.
There are a lot of people on food stamps that don't need them. I'm not ashamed to say that I'm a recovering addict (Been sober for 2 years now :) ) and I used all my food-stamp money to buy stuff for other people in exchange for drugs.
The sad thing is you can also use EBT cards at strip clubs, and to buy alcohol, and to buy lottery tickets. And all them things are food and aren't a necessity.
@Devonrevenge Everyone makes choices in there life. If they choose to sell drugs or rob stores, THEY must live with the consequences not blame it on the society for not giving them a job. If you were running a business and you had the choice to hire either A) a people with good job history, and or a degree in something. or B) a ex convict with good job history, and or a degree in something. Who would you hire?
There are a lot of people on food stamps that don't need them. I'm not ashamed to say that I'm a recovering addict (Been sober for 2 years now :) ) and I used all my food-stamp money to buy stuff for other people in exchange for drugs.
The sad thing is you can also use EBT cards at strip clubs, and to buy alcohol, and to buy lottery tickets. And all them things are food and aren't a necessity.
@Devonrevenge Everyone makes choices in there life. If they choose to sell drugs or rob stores, THEY must live with the consequences not blame it on the society for not giving them a job. If you were running a business and you had the choice to hire either A) a people with good job history, and or a degree in something. or B) a ex convict with good job history, and or a degree in something. Who would you hire?
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Perhaps my view is tinted due to somehow observing only the people who abuse the system, or due to the fact that I live in NY where taxes are incredibly high, unions have the government by the balls and the welfare system n place is incredibly loose. I haven;t looked too far into the actual details of how one obtains welfare here, but I know you can live 100% of tax payer money for as long as 2.5 years.
dont tell that to me, tell that to them kids who are told every day that they must have the best this and the newest that and that they are not real men til they have whatever, you should know what its like being young and not wanting to be a nobody, and if its not down to society why is it that its always the poor working class youngsters getting hauled for the same crime, you wouldnt get an eton educated chelsea boy mugging anyone.
the bad decisions are there to make its like choosing not to buy medical insurance at the age of 18.
@modshop, what state would the economy or the working class be in if there was never any unions, and what would stop the working enviroment from turning into the same 17th century working enviroment before we got the unions together?
the bad decisions are there to make its like choosing not to buy medical insurance at the age of 18.
@modshop, what state would the economy or the working class be in if there was never any unions, and what would stop the working enviroment from turning into the same 17th century working enviroment before we got the unions together?
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@ModShop
Aside from the last ~5 years I lived in NY my entire life, so I do see your point. I just happen to feel the small amount of abuse is a small price to pay to help our fellow man.
Aside from the last ~5 years I lived in NY my entire life, so I do see your point. I just happen to feel the small amount of abuse is a small price to pay to help our fellow man.
this is true naruku we tolerate a lot of dodgyness at the top, theres got to be some tolerance at the bottom.
| devonrevenge wrote: |
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| what state would the economy or the working class be in if there was never any unions, and what would stop the working enviroment from turning into the same 17th century working enviroment before we got the unions together? |
Terrible. Unions, as with practically everything else already discussed, are necessary to a certain degree, but we must be careful not to miss that degree. It used to be that employers had too much power over employees, and abused said power. To fix this, unions were created to give the employees leverage and even the playing field. They were great, for a while, but now they have been given too much power and employers have the lesser hand. Where I live, teachers cannot be fired without HUGE legal battles that cost the school more than what it would cost to leave bad teachers on payroll. The sanitation department MUST keep X workers on payroll, regardless of what it actually needs or can afford. They also design the truck routes to purposely increase the time necessary (like two trucks on opposite ends of town driving across town and taking each others places). Theres more too, you just have to open your eyes and see. All of this crap is a direct result of unions having too much power over the employer. I know all of this because I have many friends and family involved in local government and some are also local business owners.
yeah unions are a bit lost over here too, the other thinkg is though P.R companies are payed a lot to demonize them, rupert murdoch was offered the sun in the 1980s simply because 'he was the man to fix the unions' now we have politicians being too cozy to media...its all very lost these days, thats why we get into these debates, theres idealism on idealism on idealism and its all very unstable.
i heard america is big on legal battles, you ask me deliberately dragging something out is contempt of court.
i heard america is big on legal battles, you ask me deliberately dragging something out is contempt of court.
Yeah, we sue everyone for everything here. Its unbelievable, people just need to take responsibility sometimes, not this stupid "I'm incompetent, but it's someone else's fault so I'll sue them" mentality.
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