C++11 Style

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Much better than Gangnam Style.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iWb_qi2-uI
Bjarne always looks / sounds so nervous on camera.

(I suppose that 99.9% of all comp-sci folks do too, to be fair [with Herb being the 0.1% oddball]).
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I can't get over his horrible haircut... or lack of one.
You'd think after 8600 posts you wouldn't care how someone looked, but then again human nature is very powerful.
Many people fail to understand the importance of appearance. Your appearance has a conscious (and subconscious) impact on other people's impression of you. If you look like a dorky programmer, people are going to think you're a dorky programmer -- and treat you like a dorky programmer.

Case in point: Bill Gates vs. Steve Jobs.

Steve Jobs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uW-E496FXg

Bill Gates:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDfRvcjBQlM

They both carry themselves similarly, and even have similar personalities. The difference? Steve Jobs looks and dresses better.

Everyone loved Steve Jobs... they thought he was a cool guy. They even laugh as his stupid jokes in that video (sometimes they're not even jokes and the audience is still laughing.

And everyone complains about Bill Gates.

Coincidence? Not really. Sure there are other factors that differentiate the two and contribute to their perceived personas, but appearance is a big one (if not the biggest one).



So yeah, I respect Bjarne and think he's a smart guy. But I'm sure I would respect him and like him more if he took the time and effort to look a little more presentable. You would too.


And yeah.. human nature is very powerful. Seeing as how we're humans.


EDIT:

Notice how Luc's comment was also regarding his appearance rather than the actual content of the video. Appearance is IMPORTANT.
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Correlation does not equal causation.

As an aside, I don't think Strousup really cares about if people think he dresses nice or not. He's a pretty brilliant computer scientist and I'd say he's just concerned with research and not so much how the public views him. Nobody is going to question his intelligence because he has a bad haircut.
That's funny. Caught Bill Gates was on The Colbert Report on Wednesday night, and his lesser "cool factor" compared to Steve Jobs came up in the course of the show.

video can be found at the bottom of:
http://www.neowin.net/news/bill-gates-talks-health-microsoft-and-steve-jobs-on-colbert-report
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ResidentBiscuit wrote:
Correlation does not equal causation.


I'm sorry, but if you don't think appearance is a contributing cause to people's impression of you, you are either a fool, or extremely sheltered.

EDIT: I'm really sorry to be so abrasive... but I can't help but feel this line was just posted to be antagonistic. I have a hard time believing you really think that... so my first instinct was to be antagonistic back at you :P. Please don't take it personal.

As an aside, I don't think Strousup really cares about if people think he dresses nice or not. He's a pretty brilliant computer scientist and I'd say he's just concerned with research and not so much how the public views him.


That's fine. I'm not saying otherwise.

Nobody is going to question his intelligence because he has a bad haircut.


You'd be surprised. It might have significantly less of an impact within the programming/computer science communities because everyone knows who he is and what he's accomplished... but it never goes away completely.


cire wrote:
Caught Bill Gates was on The Colbert Report on Wednesday night, and his lesser "cool factor" compared to Steve Jobs came up in the course of the show.


Hah.
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Disch wrote:
If you look like a dorky programmer, people are going to think you're a dorky programmer -- and treat you like a dorky programmer.


If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... -- careful now! Society will label you as a bigot for agreeing with common sense and / or statistics!


Anyhow...physical appearances aside, I'm more impacted by how people behave. If someone can't make eye contact with me or I feel like I'm going to crush their hand while shaking it, I automatically (semi-subconsciously) categorize that person as weak and someone that I can't depend on.

Boldness, tenacity, and brutal honesty are qualities that I value in people.

* I'm not saying that physical appearances don't have an effect -- they do in fact to a large extent -- but rather that behavior supersedes appearance in my book.
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I've heard people say that the less clean your appearance, the smarter they think you are (in the programming world). This is not completely true, but there is definitely a pattern of brilliant programmers having scruffy beards and uncut hair.

Then of course there is Einstein; his wild hair a feature people associate with his genius.

And to expand on the idea of correlation between genius and oddness; there seams to be a pattern of brilliant people behaving strangely (according to social standards). Maybe Bjarnes is nervous and awkward on camera or personally, and maybe he doesn't like to maintain eye contact with people, but these are common traits among very intelligent people.

Many of the greatest innovators in science and technology were very strange people.

Steve Jobs was pretty weird the way he always wore a black turtle neck. I always thought he looked like he could have been a super villain in a James Bond film or something. He was not well dressed, but he was dressed weirdly/distinctly, and that strangeness made him more noticeable and memorable.
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Luc lieber mentioned Herb Sutte.
Why is he such a big and respected name in C++ when he works for a company
who has no interest in C++
I would have thought he might have the sort of clout that would make sure
MS made a better effort on their C++11 stuff.

Visual Studio 2012 is basically a ( v.expensive) waste of time where C++ is concerned.

Or am I being too judgemental?
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I remember watching a video of Herb where he alludes to Microsoft kind of screwing over the C++ team a bit. VS was released before the C++11 standard could be finished and they don't really allow small iterations of the software. I think it was in that same talk he mentions that everyone at Microsoft still relies on C++.

Also Bjarne has always stated he shouldn't be in marketing, maybe that extends to his appearance.
Visual Studio 2012 is basically a ( v.expensive) waste of time where C++ is concerned.

Or am I being too judgemental?

Their compiler fell behind (that is, behind clang, gnu, and intel, although still a bit ahead of ibm), as far as implementing C++11, but their library is, I think, the second most complete C++11 implementation around (after LLVM libc++), well ahead of GNU and others.

Granted, this is mostly gifted individual's contributions (Howard Hinnant made libc++, STL made Visual Studio's library), while compiler teams reflect the state of the larger-scale management.
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closed account (S6k9GNh0)
I'll agree that appearance matters, but it matters a whole lot more than it should.

If I walk up to someone and answer someone who just asked a question about C++... with sandals, half my hair missing, a tanktop, and gym shorts, should my answer be any less valid because of my clothing?

Logically, this makes no sense. Appearance is simply a fad of society. It has no validity in the world of logic. But alas, a lot of people judge based on first appearance because that's how they're brought up and cannot think past what was embedded in them. Religion comes to mind.
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@computerquip
That depends; are you wearing socks with the sandals?
closed account (S6k9GNh0)
Yes.
Then yes, your answer is less valid.
closed account (iw0XoG1T)
Apperanace judgements work both ways.

If you are male, large, athletic, and attractive you maybe considered a leader--but you are assumed not to be as smart as an under-weight geek. In fact the word geek is now often used to state someone is an expert (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek).

I know that my physical appearance has worked against me in life. Could not tell you how many times people have told me that they "never would have guessed I was smart".

And I am neither ugly nor do I dress poorly. I am just a large strong man. Though I must addmit that this doesn't happen as much now that I am getting older. People seem to thing gray makes you smart.

People also judge you on how well you can write on the fly. I have slight disability that makes writing difficult. At work if anything is leaving the office I am always careful to have someone else proof it--to hide my disability.

It has nothing to do with intelligence--but my god--make a mistake in your writing on one of these forums and you will have a high-school kid still struggling with simple algerbra call you an uneducated fool.
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computerquip wrote:
If I walk up to someone and answer someone who just asked a question about C++... with sandals, half my hair missing, a tanktop, and gym shorts, should my answer be any less valid because of my clothing?


It depends. If the person asking for help never met you before and got a conflicting answer from someone else who looks better -- then yes, your answer will be less "valid".

And by "valid" I don't mean correct... I mean the person you're helping would be less likely to believe you.

computerquip wrote:
Logically, this makes no sense. Appearance is simply a fad of society. It has no validity in the world of logic.


It makes perfect sense logically. It's a natural, evolutionary, social mechanism that we use to make judgements when we don't know/have all the facts.

"That guy looks mean, I better stay away from him." vs. "That guy looks nice, maybe I can ask him for directions."

Of course you can learn to work past it after you've met the person and are more familiar with their personality / knowledge pool.

But alas, a lot of people judge based on first appearance because that's how they're brought up and cannot think past what was embedded in them. Religion comes to mind.


I don't know how religion has anything to do with it. It's completely natural. It's not even limited only to humans -- animals do it too.


Rather than go on about how illogical it is -- you should probably just accept it as human nature and work around it so it benefits you.

I mean you want to talk about being logical... if you know that people treat you better when you look good... wouldn't the logical thing to do be to make yourself look as good as possible?

chwsks wrote:
I know that my physical appearance has worked against me in life. Could not tell you how many times people have told me that they "never would have guessed I was smart".


Yeah. It's unfortunate, but that happens.
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closed account (S6k9GNh0)
The other day, I walked past a dog. I tried giving it food but it didn't trust me since I was wearing an ugly polo shirt.
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