Linux distributions, kernel, Desktop Environments, POSIX etc

[TheIdeasMan]

Basically I am wondering what it would take to have a "One Linux Standard". The philosophical issue I have is needing to have a particular application like an IDE for each Linux OS, rather than 1 that will work for all of them. I know there is nothing I can do about it - just wondering how all the different aspects of the OS combine together for different OS's.

First some of what I think I know about distributions:

There are so many because the kernel is open source, and many have decided to modify an existing kernel to create their own distribution. Major distributions like Fedora & Ubuntu say, have evolved separately because of this.

I can understand how someone might want a minimal version & someone else might want one that is suitable for a phone say.

I can also understand how a distribution might want to look different to another, but I wonder why this can't be achieved with different Desktop Environments.

With applications that have to be built for each distribution, I am wondering just how different all the distributions are in that respect- why can't there be be quite a bit of common ground there?

With POSIX, my impression is that it is an API that will allow any application written with it, to work on any POSIX compliant OS. If that is the case, how much is it used by application frameworks like Qt? Or is it a case of the POSIX having insufficient or awkward system calls to be useful? Or is it too awkward to write a Qt wrapper in terms of POSIX calls?

Then of course there is hardware - hopefully a lot of common stuff there?

So my question is: Is it possible to achieve the possibly outrageous ideal of being able to:

1. Compile once, for a group of Linux distributions, so that 1 location of software will work with them all.

Could we have a system where all the common stuff is distilled into 1 standard, with extras & variations accommodated with Desktop Environments & Workspace Themes?

I know this all sounds like a rambling mixed bag of ideas - that's because I don't know enough details. I tried to read up a bit on wiki etc, but there is squillions of info out there - most of it paradoxically too detailed for me.

[MiiNiPaa]

Compile once

Should I say... Java?

Could we have a system where all the common stuff is distilled into 1 standard

I highly doubt it. The thing in Linux is if somebody doesn't like what direction some part is taking he can write his own, cooperate with group of similar-thinking men and release their own system which suits them. ALSA, ESD, aRts, PulseAudio, OSS... Does this names tell you anything? This xkcd comics describes it perfectly: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png

[TheIdeasMan]

Hi MiiNiPaa - thanks for your reply.

Should I say... Java?

Well Java isn't suitable for everything :)

As an example, I have Fedora with all it's apps - if I install Ubuntu as well, then I need to install all the same apps again, rather than having 1 of each (in /opt say) that can be used by either OS. What is so different about these 2 major distributions that a developer needs to compile for both. Is the difference really necessary?

With an application, what is so different about how it is compiled wrt a Linux OS, that can't be accommodated with different Desktop Environments & Workspace Themes & Window Managers?

Part of what I am saying is that way an OS looks visually should be independent of how it executes applications.

The other thing is that we have a standard for C++, so why not a standard for Linux? Is it way too late to tie together many splintered Linux variations? Or is it a case of requiring someone with sufficient vision & leadership to do it?

[ResidentBiscuit]

There are differences between the distros besides the desktop environment :) For example, there are different distros that are all just command line machines.

I suggest getting a book about operating systems if you're really interested. It's a huge topic.

[ne555]

¿is google down?
http://askubuntu.com/questions/23818/is-linux-binary-universal-to-all-kinds-of-distributions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Standard_Base


> Part of what I am saying is that way an OS looks visually should be independent of how it executes applications.
¿do you include the DE/WM in the OS?


there are some (bad) applications that suppose a windows management model. (by instance, assume fixed size, can't resize, expects floating environment, can't start minimized, etc)

[TheIdeasMan]

Thanks everyone for your replies 8+)

As I said I don't really know much about this topic, but from your answers it seems it is not as bad as I imagined.

@RB

There are differences between the distros besides the desktop environment :) For example, there are different distros that are all just command line machines.

Yes, I was aware of that :) At work we had an AIX server that was always on run level 5, so it is easy to imagine a distribution (especially a proprietary one) without any GUI stuff at all. But I reckon there is a lot which is common - I guess that is what the LSB is all about.

I suggest getting a book about operating systems if you're really interested. It's a huge topic.

Yes it is a huge topic, so I made this post to get some general ideas on how it works, and try to find out whether anyone is working towards a common system, rather than read a large book. Cheers for your info though :)

@ne555

Thanks for your insights & info - cheers!

I probably didn't put in the right search string to see the LSB stuff. Had I put in "One Linux Standard" like I mentioned in my OP, I would have found it straight away ! (face palm)

¿do you include the DE/WM in the OS?

I realise that the DE/WM are separate from the OS. I was trying to say that I might have 2 OS Fedora & Ubuntu say - to me they do the same things (run the same apps) but just look different. If the difference is only visual, it should be in the DE/WM and not in the OS, so there is compatibility in being able to execute the app. I guess that is what the LSB is trying to achieve. It seems a shame that various flavours of Linux aren't more compatible at the moment - maybe one day.

[naraku9333]

If the difference is only visual, it should be in the DE/WM and not in the OS, so there is compatibility in being able to execute the app.

There all ready is, linux binaries are for the most part portable between distros provided that the bit width is the same and any required libs are available. Just because Ubuntu defaults to Gnome as a DE doesn't mean it cant run KDE apps, you just need to install the necessary run time libs.

[TheIdeasMan]

@naraku9333

All right, thanks for that - cheers. I will give that a go.

ThingLearnt += 10;