c++

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BHXSpecter wrote:
Actually I would say to avoid VC2010 and all MS things until you learn C++. MS makes you use their compiler which doesn't hold as tight to the C++ standard as the guys making MinGW and GNU do (as I think MinGW is a windows implementation of the GNU compiler).
VC++ lags behind GCC in implementation of C++11 features, but to say the are less standard compliant then GCC is not true. Both use proprietary extensions and both have options to disable them.


BHXSpecter wrote:
A programmer's productivity is not connected to an IDE
Proper use of an IDE, in particular the debugging tools, aids greatly to productivity. Of course GDB is available for debugging, but IMO it is much more complicated to use then a visual debugger (at least to most beginners).
closed account (Dy7SLyTq)
Proper use of an IDE, in particular the debugging tools, aids greatly to productivity.
not true i used an ide properly for the longest time and then switched to notepad and mingw and wrote much better code. it depends on your preference, your style, and your os
@DTSCode
If that works for you that's fine, I can only hope your using a debugger.
closed account (Dy7SLyTq)
no i learned the error messages. i thoroughly test and if i do find a bug i fix it myself
closed account (3qX21hU5)
I would highly highly suggest you learn to use a debugger as soon as possible it is probably the most powerful tool available to a programmer and taking a few hours to learn to use it will save your more time then you can imagine.
^^ Agreed with Zereo. Where I'm working people use both IDE and text editor+console. I actually use both interchangably depending on what I'm doing at that moment, but in some of the larger project workspaces (with hundreds of files) things like MS Visual are incredibly helpful. Learning programs like Visual Studio will undoubtedly be beneficial to you if you ever enter into industry or team-based programming projects.
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closed account (Dy7SLyTq)
i know it, i just like using a text editor better
Using VS for simple one-source-file programs is overkill.
Fredbill30 wrote:
Using VS for simple one-source-file programs is overkill.

Using vim for complex 15 file programs is underkill.

It's all preference. What if I have VS open already? Should I just close it so I can pop open some text editor because of some stupid ideals? No, I'll write it in VS. It has very nice features. Even if it's closed, if I'm on Windows I'll just open it up and write it in there. I hate dealing with the windows command line. I feel sorry for windows admins who have to work with that crap.
closed account (3qX21hU5)
I feel sorry for windows admins who have to work with that crap.


I know the windows command line is complete crap. I have been doing a lot of work with Django lately which involves a lot of command line work (Setting up databases, running development servers, ect) and I couldn't stand it so I finally broke down and downloaded a upgraded terminal to use instead that replaces the original CMD. Though it is quite buggy so I might just have to switch to my linux (Which I should have done in the first place).
If you have it open it's a different story. I mean if you open it just to make a project for your little 1 .cpp program it's overkill.

Using CMD for MinGW isn't that hard, it's almost the same for *nix systems.
Heh. Yea. Sometimes I get confused and I think I'm using a Linux terminal. Microsoft has really made some advancements in their CL environment lately.
Read a book im reading c++ primer 5th edition
What? Was that to us or to the OP?
naraku9333 wrote:
VC++ lags behind GCC in implementation of C++11 features, but to say the are less standard compliant then GCC is not true. Both use proprietary extensions and both have options to disable them.

Really? I have been told and read that they are one or two standards behind the current standard and follow their variant of C++ more than there standard. Thanks for clarifying that though.
naraku9333 wrote:
Proper use of an IDE, in particular the debugging tools, aids greatly to productivity. Of course GDB is available for debugging, but IMO it is much more complicated to use then a visual debugger (at least to most beginners).

I don't agree. I agree that using the tools properly is key, but I feel that productivity ultimately is the programmer and not the tools. If the programmer is lazy they aren't going to be productive no matter what tools you give them.
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Yes, lets say the programmer isn't lazy, and decides to use MingGW and Notepad++ for game dev. He hits a critical bug and has to manually debug.

You're saying the person who uses VC++'s debugger is has the same amount of productivity than the other?
closed account (Dy7SLyTq)
as i said:

not true i used an ide properly for the longest time and then switched to notepad and mingw and wrote much better code. it depends on your preference, your style, and your os


ides dont usually like to conform to my style of code and i have to waste time fixing it. i know the error messages so thats an easy fix, and i write my code so that it fits together like a puzzle and i can tell where the bug is and narrow it down through printf/cout tests
i can tell where the bug is and narrow it down through printf/cout tests


Disch told me that's the poor man's debugger.
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Fredbill30 wrote:
You're saying the person who uses VC++'s debugger is has the same amount of productivity than the other?

Yes. IDEs only bypass the commands, and only give you the most common commands by default. If you want to run other tests you have to either go in and add them every time you realize you need a new (assuming your IDE allows you to edit them) or you can open the terminal and punch in the commands you think of without having to stop to tweak your IDE to add the new shortcuts.
Fredbill30 wrote:
Disch told me that's the poor man's debugger.

Then every programmer is a poor man because that is the normal for all error testing in code. Even Bjarne himself stress error testing like that in his book The C++ Programming Language.
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closed account (Dy7SLyTq)
Disch told me that's the poor man's debugger.

i dont care what disch thinks (in regard to this). my stratergy works fine for me. if my future boss wants me to use certain tools, then i will, but i have tested lots of tools and settled with cygwin/mingw and vim/notepad/notepad++. it works for me and i feel more in control than before
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