how hackers become hacker?

[Mats]

I would not consider anyone with less than 5 years experience a pro in any language though.

I don't think this is realistic. Imagine being a reasonably smart youngster. Now imagine spending 8-12 hours a day on programming in say C++, dividing your time between studying books, doing your own projects and contributing to projcts. After only 2 years, if we assume an average of 8 hours a day are spent on this task then about 6 thousand hours of this study and work have been logged and they will know a great deal about C++. In fact, probably more than many people on this site.

I've seen this happen in another hobby of mine. Some guy surpassed me in like 2.5 years (and I am 'pro') and was becoming world class after 3.5 years. I E-mailed him to ask what he was doing. He said on a bad practice day he did 5 hours practice and on good practice days he did up to 14 hours...

[tath]

@BHXSpecter it is not rule but my experience from talking with people :). obviously it is a bit too single minded statement and it is about people who brag about themselfs in such fake/ostentatiously way, just to show off.

[BHX]

tath wrote:

@BHXSpecter it is not rule but my experience

tath wrote:

From what i experienced there is simple rule:
If someone is calling himself hacker/geek/nerd/etc - he isn't one.

What?! It isn't a 'bit too' single minded, but rather extremely single minded. Not to mention contradicting as you call it a rule in your previous post and then say it isn't a rule :/.

[3qX21hU5]

What?! It isn't a 'bit too' single minded, but rather extremely single minded. Not to mention contradicting as you call it a rule in your previous post and then say it isn't a rule :/.

I believe he meant that if a person goes out of his way to make it known to as many people as he can that he is some amazing hacker or some amazing programmer the chances are that he isn't.

I generally find this to be especially true in the hacker community. Real hackers don't usually go around calling themselves a hacker or I should say they don't go out of their way to make sure everyone knows that they are a hacker.

[Dy7SLyTq]

If someone is calling himself hacker/geek/nerd/etc - he isn't one.

not true. i am a nerd. i dont try to be one, i just enjoy the same things that stereotypical nerds do (well at least one faction. i never could get into comic books). although i will agree that there is a large population of people out there who call themselves that because its a fad. like my sister does but she is the farthest thing from a nerd, geek, or hackker

whireshark is your wife.

do you mean wireshark? because that is an amazing tool. i learned a lot about packet transfer with that

[BHX]

@Zereo
So if a person goes out of their way saying they are something it means the most likely aren't. Like a site of hackers saying they are hackers or a site of girl gamers saying they are girl gamers or a site of programmers saying they are programmers? Funny how I am told my point of views are wrong when I base them on a few site interactions and yet it appears the same point of view is being based off a few users on a few 'hacker' sites :P.

[3qX21hU5]

BHXSpecter wrote:

So if a person goes out of their way saying they are something it means the most likely aren't. Like a site of hackers saying they are hackers or a site of girl gamers saying they are girl gamers or a site of programmers saying they are programmers?

That is generally what I find to be true. Also when I say going out of the way to make it known I mean they constantly bring it up and are always bragging out it. It's kind of hard to explain but hopefully you understand what I mean.

BHXSpecter wrote:

Funny how I am told my point of views are wrong when I base them on a few site interactions and yet it appears the same point of view is being based off a few users on a few 'hacker' sites :P.

I didn't mean to imply that your point of view is wrong if that is what you mean by that. I was just stating what I believe tath meant and my personal opinions on the matter.

[EwCjE3v7]

@Computergeek01
Okay, well I dont wanna really get a blame, i just donno but its better to be safe then sry. and the op is messaging me back even tho he isnt replying here :/

[BHX]

@Zereo
No, I understood, but I saw the opening for picking :). I'm sure there are people that come to this site and think a lot of us aren't really programmers and sometimes I honestly think I'm not really a programmer and actually refer to myself as a programmer wannabe and indie game dev wannabe. Oh well, personal perception.

[Computergeek01]

@ Zereo: What you are describing is a very well documented social quirk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

[BHX]

@Computergeek01
So what is the opposite of Dunning Kruger Effect? Where a person that is skilled believes they are under skilled than what they are?

[Computergeek01]

That's still part of the Dunning Kruger Effect.

[Mats]

The opposite would be skilled people overestimating[1] their own skill and unskilled people underestimating[2] their own skill.

[1] Pop stars
[2] Those people who just get lucky throws all the time in darts. Fuckers.

[BHX]

I'm skilled, but doubt my skills. I mean I've been doing this since 1994 ('94 - '96 was basic and '96 to now in C++ primarily with other languages during that time) and I still see myself as a beginner that knows nothing. At least I now know that I'm not just crazy :).

[IWishIKnew]

My god, is annonymous on pastebin?!?!

I... I think I'm gonna cry.... :')

[Dy7SLyTq]

@bhx: what were you focusing on during 1996-present? i only ask because it would seem odd to not know pointers after all of that time. im sure there is a legitamate reason, just curious.

[tath]

@BHXSpecter You seems to put one-zero logic in my opinion. I put an extra time, to carefully add "From what i experienced" and "for me" which can be also read "from my point of view" since i anticipated such discussion direction somewhat. "So if a person goes out of their way saying they are something it means they most likely aren't"- BHXSpecter. This is over-interpretation. If you work as software developer, then saying you are one is normal. Hacker (maybe except some official white-hats), nerd, geek are not jobs or titles gained from universities (Faculty of Hacking :D), but cultural synonyms. Now that these words became mainstream they mean nothing like the did for me in the past.

When i grew up nerd was a kid who was study very hard to be always the best, either because of personal reasons or parents - always wanting to get the highest score on test, always having hand in the air to answer the teacher - and all that at the cost of discarding playing with other kids who typically didn't accept such individuals and called him 'nerd'. Geek is very symiliar, but instead of study, geek was a person intersted in something else to such point that all else didn't matter. And when you talked to such kid he could brag about his interest for hours since he was such passionate. And a hacker? I grew up in 90s and a 'hacker' was a mythical being who was robing the banks by using phone boots, sink the oil tankers, crash satelites and ride the binary unicorn. And all that was in TV news!

I lived in such times and these words have such meaning for me. The problem is that, these dont have such meaning anymore (mostly because of overuse in stupid comedies). Because of times change casual-bully-nerd-geek, etc. mixed with each other (easier acces to information like the internet) and there is no such distinction like back in the days. Nerd - who sacraficed all to be the best - now is just 'cool' word to call yourself. Even if you aren't one in terms of what i wrote before. ( http://www.forbes.com/sites/victorhwang/2013/06/03/a-huge-global-epidemic-fake-nerds/ etc). The Geek. If you are extremely passionate about something you DIG in. Always looking for more information, always know the most. Last time when i asked dude with "geek" on his t-shirt, he couldn't answer what he is 'geek' about. With open media today, these are just fashioned titles (at least for me - i think you call it conflict of ages. And with such vast amount of information this will grow faster :)).

The hackers? When i was a kid, i digged in because i didnt know the answer to such questions: what hackers do? how does they do it? All people i found on the need either used some ready tools or known bugs - and all of them called themself 'hackers'. From social point of view, they propably are. But now for me. Who find these bugs? Who write these tools? How the hell do you crack a game? Except the last question, I will never know the truth - and honestly - i dont want to, because i like image i have right now :).

ps. oftopic for these who dont know this legend :D
http://www.cs.utah.edu/~elb/folklore/mel.html

ps2. thats the biggest post in my life

[BHX]

DTSCode wrote:

@bhx: what were you focusing on during 1996-present? i only ask because it would seem odd to not know pointers after all of that time. im sure there is a legitamate reason, just curious.

There is a difference between not understanding and not knowing them. I understand the basics of pointers, but I can't say I completely understand them after all this time.

@tath
I understand it is your experience, but problem is you said it was 'the rule'. Which means that your experience made you change the wording of the rule, but my point was there is no rule about it. As for my 'over-interpretation', you apparently missed Zereo's reply:

I believe he meant that if a person goes out of his way to make it known to as many people as he can that he is some amazing hacker or some amazing programmer the chances are that he isn't.

My interpretation isn't over-interpreting it all all, but rather just making a remark that was commenting on what Zereo had said.

I grew up in the 80s and 90s and I don't know when you thought they took a separate path, but when I was growing up geek, nerd, and dork were all the same thing (even in the 90s). The image of them didn't change until 1993 when Mighty Morphin Power Rangers aired, because before that 'hackers' were spoiled rich kids that were exceptional and doing it for attention or doing it to save their friends. I was 13 when MMPR aired and until then I was an outcast because I was a geek/nerd/dork, but shortly after MMPR aired and people saw Billy being portrayed as a geek who was cool, suddenly kids started treating me better and a lot of my friends on FB have said it was because of that show that they started seeing me in a different light. Movies after that still kind of typecasted the 'hackers' as kids that really didn't look geeky/nerdy/dorky but rather looked like one of the kids you would have thought were popular in school, from a rich family, who do it as a way of acting out for attention or personal gain, but then using their abilities to help others by the end of the movies. Fiction definitely has skewed the line between reality and fiction of programming/hacking.

As for Mel, I wouldn't call it a legend because it is someone's account and as of the last time I read about it still had no proof any of it was true except there was a Mel on the team for Royal McBee Computer Corporation. Most sites say it is a work of fiction that just happened to use a person they knew to write it. Others call it hearsay.

[Dy7SLyTq]

@bhx oh ok my mistake