Legal Prostitution
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My position on legalizing prostitution hasn't been as well accepted as I thought. I think legalizing prostitution while still regulating it is better than the current reality. But people don't seem to really care about the reality and just label prostitution bad (even though it's subjective), and still want it completely illegalized. There are some groups, like The Young Turks who share my sentiment but they are not even close to the majority at the moment.
What's your opinion on the matter?
What's your opinion on the matter?
Huh. Clips of Sin City come to mind. Obviously it wouldn't end up like that (I'm actually all for it, because at least if it is legal they have a way to protect themselves), but still.
Prostitution already is legal...
... if you film it. Oh and it's called something else.
... if you film it. Oh and it's called something else.
| Clips of Sin City come to mind. |
| Nevada Nevada is the only U.S. state to allow some legal prostitution. Currently eight counties in Nevada have active brothels (these are all rural counties); as of June–July 2008 there were 28 legal brothels in Nevada. Prostitution outside the licensed brothels is illegal throughout Nevada. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Nevada --Vegas is the bottom right btw
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Prostitution, pronography, and escorts are basically the same thing just the latter two have found loopholes to get around some of the legal issues. As moonshiners say, "It's only illegal if you get caught!".
This is, of course, quite the minefield.
Were prostitution to be legalized in the United States, it would have to be under considerable regulation and there would have to be resources for individuals who are entering or leaving the industry to ease the transition in both directions. More importantly, there would need to be extensive laws to protect against any form of exploitation or sexual abuse while in the industry. A sex worker should still have a right to non-consent. Additionally, there would need to be safeguards to assure that under no circumstances would anyone find themselves coerced into it or forced due to financial stress. Given the immense difficulties in even getting healthcare for the people of this country, I don't think our society is mature enough to deal with these issues.
Still, I don't quite see an issue with prostitution at its core, and to that end, I think the United States should legalize unorganized prostitution. People would not be criminalized for selling their sex for money, but organizations such as brothels would still be outlawed.
-Albatross
Were prostitution to be legalized in the United States, it would have to be under considerable regulation and there would have to be resources for individuals who are entering or leaving the industry to ease the transition in both directions. More importantly, there would need to be extensive laws to protect against any form of exploitation or sexual abuse while in the industry. A sex worker should still have a right to non-consent. Additionally, there would need to be safeguards to assure that under no circumstances would anyone find themselves coerced into it or forced due to financial stress. Given the immense difficulties in even getting healthcare for the people of this country, I don't think our society is mature enough to deal with these issues.
Still, I don't quite see an issue with prostitution at its core, and to that end, I think the United States should legalize unorganized prostitution. People would not be criminalized for selling their sex for money, but organizations such as brothels would still be outlawed.
-Albatross
The only reason I can think of to make prostitution illegal is because it frequently victimizes girls. And that's a damn good reason, as far as I'm concerned.
The question is... if it were legal and regulated... would it really be any better? I'm skeptical.
Though honestly.. I don't get how there's such a market for it. I mean... I can't fathom why anyone would pay for sex. That's a whole world that I haven't really been exposed to and simply do not understand. So I'm not going to even try =P
The question is... if it were legal and regulated... would it really be any better? I'm skeptical.
Though honestly.. I don't get how there's such a market for it. I mean... I can't fathom why anyone would pay for sex. That's a whole world that I haven't really been exposed to and simply do not understand. So I'm not going to even try =P
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I never met anyone who is pro-prositution that has talked to a prositute. Even the people I know who have paid for prositution believe it should be illegal.
I paid a prositute once in Hollywood because a friend insisted. I was unable to perform and gave up, my friend passed out.
I spoke with the two women for awhile (in the hotel room we got after we picked the women up) and asked them what kind money could be made, they told me it was pretty good if you could stay away from the pimps.
They told me that a young man like myself could make $1000 a night. It seems men are willing to pay quite well to have sex youthful looking men.
Then the three of us left in my car to buy some dope they told me where to go but refused to go with me because the gentleman selling the dope was a pimp and they were afraid of him. I purchased the dope and we smoked some of it. I dropped them off where they asked me to and returned to the hotel where I left my friend.
They were nice women and I feel like an ass to this day for what I did.
The only way for a man to pay for sex is to dehumanize the women and that means you are a creep.
Prositution should be illegal.
EDIT: removed common slang that whoever reported me must have found offensive. If you still find this offensive --you have a problem because I have told this same story in church to 70 year old women who were able to listen it. Also why it should not make any diffence this is a 30+ year old story.
I paid a prositute once in Hollywood because a friend insisted. I was unable to perform and gave up, my friend passed out.
I spoke with the two women for awhile (in the hotel room we got after we picked the women up) and asked them what kind money could be made, they told me it was pretty good if you could stay away from the pimps.
They told me that a young man like myself could make $1000 a night. It seems men are willing to pay quite well to have sex youthful looking men.
Then the three of us left in my car to buy some dope they told me where to go but refused to go with me because the gentleman selling the dope was a pimp and they were afraid of him. I purchased the dope and we smoked some of it. I dropped them off where they asked me to and returned to the hotel where I left my friend.
They were nice women and I feel like an ass to this day for what I did.
The only way for a man to pay for sex is to dehumanize the women and that means you are a creep.
Prositution should be illegal.
EDIT: removed common slang that whoever reported me must have found offensive. If you still find this offensive --you have a problem because I have told this same story in church to 70 year old women who were able to listen it. Also why it should not make any diffence this is a 30+ year old story.
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@gms508, I don't have a problem with your post, but considering it's honest wording, I'm not surprised it was reported.
@Disch, I've recently started to become educated in the matter. If you are interested, here are some things I've learned.
What is it when Kate Upton eats a hamburger and the sauce drips on her chest? An advertisement for hamburgers. With this in mind, there should be no doubt that there is a huge market for sex.
80% percent of men who pay for sex in the US are married. This means that their wives are unable or unwilling to perform, or unaware of their husband's desires. A woman not being willing and a man not feeling comfortable sharing drive directly into the issue of what our society deems an acceptable form of male sexuality.
If I pay someone to hit me in the face, is that soliciting prostitution? What if it turns me on? All of the sudden the desires of my body have made something illegal.
That is about all I know. Sex worker activists generally find similarities between their struggle and the gay rights movement.
@Disch, I've recently started to become educated in the matter. If you are interested, here are some things I've learned.
What is it when Kate Upton eats a hamburger and the sauce drips on her chest? An advertisement for hamburgers. With this in mind, there should be no doubt that there is a huge market for sex.
80% percent of men who pay for sex in the US are married. This means that their wives are unable or unwilling to perform, or unaware of their husband's desires. A woman not being willing and a man not feeling comfortable sharing drive directly into the issue of what our society deems an acceptable form of male sexuality.
If I pay someone to hit me in the face, is that soliciting prostitution? What if it turns me on? All of the sudden the desires of my body have made something illegal.
That is about all I know. Sex worker activists generally find similarities between their struggle and the gay rights movement.
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...so... you're okay with buying opiates (over which a lot of blood was probably spilled in a drug war or feud) from a pimp directly, but not okay with women freely (I understood from your story that they were independent and thus afraid of the pimp for fear of losing that independence) selling themselves for sex, am I right?
-Albatross
-Albatross
closed account (oSGzwA7f)
| ...so... you're okay with buying opiates |
@Albatross: the story's of my life are the way they were, not how they should have been. Although it doesn't make a difference I am 53 and back in the early 80's "dope" was slang for marijuana.
I think we are better off with prostitution illegal. The reason is that if it's legalized, then it's legitimized, and then it becomes part of the culture; it becomes a career choice for men and women, who would otherwise choose better paths in life.
I'm not saying that prostitution is to blame, but in the world today, where you find prostitution, you find all sorts of other evils, such as hard drugs, gangs, organized crime, and corruption. Prostitution fits in the mix because it's a highly exploitative industry that is typically controlled by dangerous people. It typically is exploitative of young women who are barely adults, if even, and who are easily manipulated. Often drugs and intimidation are used to exert control over them. The customers are analogous to drug addicts and are also, ultimately, victims of the exploitation.
I'm not saying that prostitution is to blame, but in the world today, where you find prostitution, you find all sorts of other evils, such as hard drugs, gangs, organized crime, and corruption. Prostitution fits in the mix because it's a highly exploitative industry that is typically controlled by dangerous people. It typically is exploitative of young women who are barely adults, if even, and who are easily manipulated. Often drugs and intimidation are used to exert control over them. The customers are analogous to drug addicts and are also, ultimately, victims of the exploitation.
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| Lowest0ne wrote: |
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| What is it when Kate Upton eats a hamburger and the sauce drips on her chest? An advertisement for hamburgers. With this in mind, there should be no doubt that there is a huge market for sex. |
I had to google Kate Upton because I had no idea who that was. =P
There's a distinction here, though. You're talking about using sex to sell something else -- which I completely understand. Making another product sexy makes it more appealing. The effect of this Kate Upton eating a hamburger ad makes guys want to buy the hamburger, but nobody buys the hamburger with the expectation that it'll be sexually gratifying.
| 80% percent of men who pay for sex in the US are married |
I understand why men cheat. I don't understand why they pay money.
Seriously... if you want anonymous sex... go to craigslist. There are tons of people out there who are interested in sex -- it's very easy to find. Paying for it is insane. Especially when it's illegal to do so.
| If I pay someone to hit me in the face, is that soliciting prostitution? What if it turns me on? |
No, that would not be soliciting prostitution. I fail to see the parallel you're trying to make here.
Regardless... again I'd question why you'd do this. Are you really unable to find someone who is willing to punch you in the face for free?
| Sex worker activists generally find similarities between their struggle and the gay rights movement. |
That is absurdly ridiculous. Please give me examples of how they're even remotely similar.
| Albatross wrote: |
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| but not okay with women freely (I understood from your story that they were independent and thus afraid of the pimp for fear of losing that independence) selling themselves for sex, am I right? |
The thing that makes prostitution bad is not necessarily the act itself... it's the side effects. Particularly... things like human trafficking.
It also complicates issues of rape, which is already an extremely difficult topic. Can you rape a girl if she's a prostitute? Obviously the answer is yes... but how can you make the distinction between rape and paid services? Suddenly, "I paid for it" becomes a rape defense.
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+1 @ htirwin's reply. I agree with everything he said.
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| Suddenly, "I paid for it" becomes a rape defense. |
That is indeed an issue. Like I said, we're probably not mature enough as a society to have organized prostitution legal. I'm still in support of decriminalizing exchanges of money for sex outside of brothels, in private.
-Albatross
| The thing that makes prostitution bad is not necessarily the act itself... it's the side effects. Particularly... things like human trafficking. |
Exactly. So what is wrong with me waking up today and deciding I want to make money by being a prostitute. I was born in the US, I'm 30 years old, I have a full time job, I pay taxes, I live in a place with no drug problems ( relatively ) and no crime, wtf?
| Are you really unable to find someone who is willing to punch you in the face for free? |
lol.
But seriously, say I work 70 hours a week. I just want to be punched in the face. I don't want to talk to strangers or try to piss people off. What is wrong with having a person who is a professional face puncher? No questions, no emotions, just a punch in the face.
| There's a distinction here, though. You're talking about using sex to sell something els |
I didn't make my point clear. Some people would say Kate Upton is the prostitute, as she sells her body.
Realistically though, most people would say she isn't. Most people would say a porn star is not a prostitute. Most people would say a stripper is not a prostitute. The line is drawn at the point of climax. I can oogle all I want, but to actually participate and be satisfied is wrong. What it really means is that sex is wrong, and what you'll see if you started looking into this ( as you said you have never ) is that most organizations against prostitution are religious.
| I fail to see the parallel you're trying to make here. |
In Massachusetts, the difference between a solicitation and a 'general comment' is the interpretation of intent. For example, if I tapped on someone's leg and asked he/she if he/she wanted a good time, that is okay. If I squeeze someone's leg and ask the same, that is a solicitation.
| Please give me examples of how they're even remotely similar. |
This is where I really don't have much to go on. All I know is that it is a comparison that is made. It used to be illegal to be gay in the US. You can't really prove someone is gay if he/she is just walking down the street, but you can make laws about cross-dressing not being allowed. Such laws discriminate a specific type of person. There are analogous laws towards prostitutes, and the general public is beginning to see that these are human rights violations.
One law ( that was recently overturned ) was that if a person was attacked/raped while selling his/her body, that person could not be considered a victim ( and thus not get monetary health care support ). Someone could pay you for sex, and afterwards beat the shit out of you and take the money back and you have no rights because you were breaking the law in the first place.
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=27996568
You might say to yourself "you shouldn't break the law then". At that point I would ask you to look deep in your heart and really wonder if that is a reasonable thing to be thinking.
| Prostitution fits in the mix because it's a highly exploitative industry that is typically controlled by dangerous people. |
Prostitution fits in the mix because it is a law that can never be entirely enforced. There will always be prostitutes. With that fact, it is a selective law, an officer can choose to make an arrest or look the other way. It isn't too hard to start to see why prostitution would be connected to organized crime, criminals are good at making police look the other way.
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| htirwin wrote: |
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| I think we are better off with prostitution illegal. The reason is that if it's legalized, then it's legitimized, and then it becomes part of the culture; it becomes a career choice for men and women, who would otherwise choose better paths in life. |
Prostitution: the practice or occupation of engaging in sexual activity with someone for payment.
So again, pornography (sex industry) and escorts, so there are already things that are career choices for men and women they wouldn't otherwise chose. Most porn stars started out as strippers (some even have a Bachelor or Masters degree, like Pandora Peaks).
Some prostitutes do answer to pimps, while others work for themselves, and yes human trafficking is always an issue, but it isn't only connected to prostitution. Some of the prostitutes view what they do as a service and equate it to paying someone to mow the lawn, but instead you are paying someone for sex.
They have had documentaries on prostitution over the years and most of the ones interviewed say that most of their clients are just gentlemen who are wanting affection and attention, and they give it to them for a fee.
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| LowestOne wrote: |
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| is that most organizations against prostitution are religious. |
I doubt you can find any pro- prostitution organization; I think what you will find is people who believe either:
1.) There is no way to stop prostitution so it is better to legalize it and regulate it for the protection of society. (by the way a quick google found a few religious organization that took this position).
2.) or any law restricting choice limits freedom and is therefore wrong (i.e. strict libertarians).
I have met parents who have told me that their children were criminals, drug addicts, and strippers but I have never met anyone who would admit that there child was a prostitute. Imagine anyone saying with pride my child is a self-sufficient and successful prostitute.
I would suggest that you talk to either people who frequent prostitutes or better yet talk to some prostitutes before you form an opinion about whether or not it is a victimless profession. This is one of those issues were personal experience is many times superior to a google search or some idiot documentary.
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I agree with legalizing prostitution, and regulating it Although, like Disch said, it's already legal if you call it pornography (or a strip club, but that's off-the-books).
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In the UK, prostitution itself (the exchange of sexual services for money) is legal.
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