whats the status of the c++ monthly competition idea guys??
closed account (3qX21hU5)
Well I could finish the www.cppcomp.com website (Just have a placeholder there at the moment) probably in a few weeks if you guys still wanna do the competitions (Even sooner if I could get someone with Django knowledge to help out).
But as I said before I'm willing to supply the domain and website to do the competitions on but I don't really wanna manage the actual competitions. I could do the needed updates for the website but that is about it.
So if there is still interest in doing the competitions and some people wanna help out running the competitions I start working on it.
But as I said before I'm willing to supply the domain and website to do the competitions on but I don't really wanna manage the actual competitions. I could do the needed updates for the website but that is about it.
So if there is still interest in doing the competitions and some people wanna help out running the competitions I start working on it.
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| You are entitled to your opinions and your suggestions but the way it sounds is you don't even want to be part of the competitions so why are you even commenting about it? |
I'm commenting because I'm pointing out the flaws in a month time frame for the competition. Month long competitions generally don't work. Competitions are supposed to be fun and challenging, but where is the challenge of making something in four weeks? You all told me that the part of learning is going out of your comfort zone and learning new things and then turn right around and attempt to implement the new things. The fun and challenge of a competition is learn those new things and get a working program to submit as an entry. Having a month to do it, allows for boredom and a decrease in motivation to creep in.
Think of it this way, how many projects have you (the community) started and by the end of the month you have changed to another project due to boredom or frustration with that project or just lose motivation to do it and put it aside for a few weeks or months? This is why competitions are usually short, they challenge you, give you cause to learn something new, and help avoid boredom setting in while helping with motivation. The longer something takes the less your motivation to finish it. The time limits can't really help much with real life as it will happen no matter what (health, work, family, friends, finances, etc).
Is there any way in which beginners / learners can get involved in this? Maybe as helpers.
closed account (3qX21hU5)
I disagree with that. You have to realize a month is not a long time to a lot of people specially for something like a competition.
A lot of people have full time jobs or college they have to attend and can't just blow that off for a fun competition to do. So really to a lot of people a 2 week competition is really a 4 day competition (Weekends only) and whatever time they have during the week which isn't much generally.
How is it not a challenge when there is four weeks to do it? Does the project somehow get harder when the time limit is shorter? I don't believe so if anything it just reduces the scale of your project because you can't do as many things as you could with a longer time limit.
A project doesn't just loose its challenge somehow because you have more time to work on it... You will still have to learn new things, you will still have to solve the same problems. And it is debatable that it actually can be more challenging with a longer time limit because there is more stuff that you have time to implement. The entries will be bigger in scale and more complicated when people have the time they need to polish their entries and add them extra features they want.
Lets take the IRC competition for example. There is many things that you could have implemented into that IRC bot. You could do like Thumper did and have it be able to have conversations with you, or like naraku did or is doing and have it tell you the weather (I believe) for a certain place. With a shorter time limit they would not have been able to implement them features (And many others) and would have to settle for much more basic features (Which lets face it aren't as challenging to implement).
So basically all I see a shorter time period doing is rushing contestants into making a program as quick as possible (Probably in a hap hazard way) so that they can get their solution in. It really isn't challenging them to learn new things.
Well I would say them people need to learn to see things through then.
You also have to consider how many people don't have the time to submit entries with such a short time period (I mentioned this above) and therefore don't even bother to participate or start and don't want to submit a half done entry?
It goes both ways, and generally I don't think most people will just give up on a project they started just because they have a extra 2 weeks to do it. But that is just me.
There are many competitions that last a month if not longer. Not all competitions are short and not all long competitions fail as you seem to be implying.
| I'm commenting because I'm pointing out the flaws in a month time frame for the competition. Month long competitions generally don't work. |
A lot of people have full time jobs or college they have to attend and can't just blow that off for a fun competition to do. So really to a lot of people a 2 week competition is really a 4 day competition (Weekends only) and whatever time they have during the week which isn't much generally.
| Competitions are supposed to be fun and challenging, but where is the challenge of making something in four weeks? You all told me that the part of learning is going out of your comfort zone and learning new things and then turn right around and attempt to implement the new things. |
How is it not a challenge when there is four weeks to do it? Does the project somehow get harder when the time limit is shorter? I don't believe so if anything it just reduces the scale of your project because you can't do as many things as you could with a longer time limit.
A project doesn't just loose its challenge somehow because you have more time to work on it... You will still have to learn new things, you will still have to solve the same problems. And it is debatable that it actually can be more challenging with a longer time limit because there is more stuff that you have time to implement. The entries will be bigger in scale and more complicated when people have the time they need to polish their entries and add them extra features they want.
Lets take the IRC competition for example. There is many things that you could have implemented into that IRC bot. You could do like Thumper did and have it be able to have conversations with you, or like naraku did or is doing and have it tell you the weather (I believe) for a certain place. With a shorter time limit they would not have been able to implement them features (And many others) and would have to settle for much more basic features (Which lets face it aren't as challenging to implement).
So basically all I see a shorter time period doing is rushing contestants into making a program as quick as possible (Probably in a hap hazard way) so that they can get their solution in. It really isn't challenging them to learn new things.
| Think of it this way, how many projects have you (the community) started and by the end of the month you have changed to another project due to boredom or frustration with that project or just lose motivation to do it and put it aside for a few weeks or months? |
Well I would say them people need to learn to see things through then.
You also have to consider how many people don't have the time to submit entries with such a short time period (I mentioned this above) and therefore don't even bother to participate or start and don't want to submit a half done entry?
It goes both ways, and generally I don't think most people will just give up on a project they started just because they have a extra 2 weeks to do it. But that is just me.
| This is why competitions are usually short, they challenge you, give you cause to learn something new, and help avoid boredom setting in while helping with motivation. |
There are many competitions that last a month if not longer. Not all competitions are short and not all long competitions fail as you seem to be implying.
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| abhishekm71 wrote: |
|---|
| Is there any way in which beginners / learners can get involved in this? Maybe as helpers. |
we can enter the competition, do our best, I learned a lot from the last one, I was using SFML for the first time.
Oh yeah although threre was only two finished enteries there was plenty of people who started but did not finnish, we haven't done a comp with its highest turnout yet, that and people will glom onto it over time too, we just need to keep it running.
@Zereo
I was ready to say I could be wrong, but I decided to post the question of time limit for a compo to a couple of my programming channels I take part in on IRC (I just posted to Freenode and EFNET servers as I'm part of a few servers). I was expecting to see the same reasoning you used for making it a month, instead I saw the same reasoning you had for not taking part in a month long compo (have a job, college, family and only have time to set a small time frame to work on it). I was even talking to the Moosader channel about how their community makes the month long compos work, they pointed out that almost every compo they have done ended up getting an extra week or two hoping to get more submissions per compo.
One user pointed out that yes there are compos that do month or more and linked me to Google Summer of Code and a few other summer long challenges, but they have some hefty challenge to them to warrant a long time to do it.
One guy replied with this:
Before I had my son, I worked 12 hour shifts at a factory and now that I have my son with all his health issues. It is easier for me to tell my wife "Babe, I need to have this weekend free to do this compo." Now if I would have come to her with "Babe, I need this amount of hours every day to do this month long compo." She would have probably pushed my laptop onto the floor. This is the general feeling I got from others too, it is easier to plan for a few days out of their busy schedule of work/college/family/life than it is to plan a whole month to get time to code (which I believe is the key thing that ultimately makes them stop trying to do the compo).
Understand, I'm not trying to make the competition go away. Quite the opposite, I want this site to have a great monthly compo, but I fear the whole month concept every month will be its downfall.
I was ready to say I could be wrong, but I decided to post the question of time limit for a compo to a couple of my programming channels I take part in on IRC (I just posted to Freenode and EFNET servers as I'm part of a few servers). I was expecting to see the same reasoning you used for making it a month, instead I saw the same reasoning you had for not taking part in a month long compo (have a job, college, family and only have time to set a small time frame to work on it). I was even talking to the Moosader channel about how their community makes the month long compos work, they pointed out that almost every compo they have done ended up getting an extra week or two hoping to get more submissions per compo.
One user pointed out that yes there are compos that do month or more and linked me to Google Summer of Code and a few other summer long challenges, but they have some hefty challenge to them to warrant a long time to do it.
| Google Summer of Code wrote: |
|---|
An annual program in which Google awards stipends to hundreds of students who successfully complete a requested free software / open-source coding project during the summer. |
One guy replied with this:
<commenter> game competitions ? <BHXSpecter> programming competitions <commenter> I know of a place that does 2-5 day comps and pays money for prizes <commenter> a month is ridiculous <commenter> I wouldn't do one over a week |
Before I had my son, I worked 12 hour shifts at a factory and now that I have my son with all his health issues. It is easier for me to tell my wife "Babe, I need to have this weekend free to do this compo." Now if I would have come to her with "Babe, I need this amount of hours every day to do this month long compo." She would have probably pushed my laptop onto the floor. This is the general feeling I got from others too, it is easier to plan for a few days out of their busy schedule of work/college/family/life than it is to plan a whole month to get time to code (which I believe is the key thing that ultimately makes them stop trying to do the compo).
Understand, I'm not trying to make the competition go away. Quite the opposite, I want this site to have a great monthly compo, but I fear the whole month concept every month will be its downfall.
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Is two weeks acceptable? That way it could still be a monthly competition with two weeks for the work, one for voting on submissions, and one for voting on the next months theme.
Yeah that format would work. Also gives them up to two weeks cool down after the competition (during the voting on submissions and voting on new theme) so a programmer won't run the risk of burnout if they end up doing two compos in a row.
One last think I would like to recommend. Some ideas would be repeatedly posted by users. Maybe have a list to be added to? For example, first compo was IRC bot, but left quite a few untouched. Put the unused one on a list and put them in the list of voting ones for future compos. As each idea gets used, mark it off the list to avoid repeats.
One last think I would like to recommend. Some ideas would be repeatedly posted by users. Maybe have a list to be added to? For example, first compo was IRC bot, but left quite a few untouched. Put the unused one on a list and put them in the list of voting ones for future compos. As each idea gets used, mark it off the list to avoid repeats.
Posting here so you'll know I am alive and still looking into this.
Being sincere I didn't do much until now.
I don't even know if switching to cplusplus.com is an acceptable idea anymore, I kinda got lost.
C++ is taking me back, forcing me to push PHP back.
And if that isn't enough, real life is taking me back, I'm almost 18 and I have to support my family, by getting a job and a driving license (And a partner, who knows).
Being sincere I didn't do much until now.
I don't even know if switching to cplusplus.com is an acceptable idea anymore, I kinda got lost.
C++ is taking me back, forcing me to push PHP back.
And if that isn't enough, real life is taking me back, I'm almost 18 and I have to support my family, by getting a job and a driving license (And a partner, who knows).
| EssGeEich wrote: |
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I don't even know if switching to cplusplus.com is an acceptable idea anymore, I kinda got lost. |
Do you all think that it's better to build a separate site for competitions OR have a 'competitions' section here?
I supported EssGeEch and I have written some code for a new forum section and twicker said he would implement my code but I don't really know what's better.
Sorry to interrupt, just want to suggest that the competition could use a time based judging, where the participants need to provide the time spent working on the project alongside the codes itself. The aim is to complete it in the shortest possible time.
For the code format you can split it into two, basic (long winded) and advanced (concise). This way you can judge the beginner and old timer.
For the competition program, start it simple and then start adding tasks to complete or extra functions. This way participant can choose how complex the program will be. Just don't forget to tell others about your extra functions so they can choose to add it in their own program.
Time limit 5 weeks, 4 weeks to accept the completed programs 1 weeks to discuss the winner(s).
You can also add some purse to it (donate if you want to), the winner can choose to forward it to the next competitions or take it. This might increase the number or participant. (A bit of hassle to implement on the net)
Or you could ask the site owner to put a simple image beside the winner name on the website (Coder of the month).
This is what my friends and I did in the uni days. Except the image thingy.
HTH.
For the code format you can split it into two, basic (long winded) and advanced (concise). This way you can judge the beginner and old timer.
For the competition program, start it simple and then start adding tasks to complete or extra functions. This way participant can choose how complex the program will be. Just don't forget to tell others about your extra functions so they can choose to add it in their own program.
Time limit 5 weeks, 4 weeks to accept the completed programs 1 weeks to discuss the winner(s).
You can also add some purse to it (donate if you want to), the winner can choose to forward it to the next competitions or take it. This might increase the number or participant. (A bit of hassle to implement on the net)
Or you could ask the site owner to put a simple image beside the winner name on the website (Coder of the month).
This is what my friends and I did in the uni days. Except the image thingy.
HTH.
| time based judging, where the participants need to provide the time spent working on the project alongside the codes itself. |
That will not work; people can easily lie.
| For the competition program, start it simple and then start adding tasks to complete or extra functions. This way participant can choose how complex the program will be. Just don't forget to tell others about your extra functions so they can choose to add it in their own program. |
You then stand the risk of losing creativity and originality.
| Time limit 5 weeks, 4 weeks to accept the completed programs 1 weeks to discuss the winner(s). |
Then it won't be a monthly competition.
| (A bit of hassle to implement on the net) |
Paypal could work, but who would sponsor the prize? Also, AFAIK the competition is meant to be fun and friendly.
| Script Coder wrote: |
|---|
| Paypal could work, but who would sponsor the prize? Also, AFAIK the competition is meant to be fun and friendly. |
Yes it is just for fun and to be friendly. The reward for the programmers that finish is the sense of accomplishment they get from doing the task(s) set forth by the compo for that month. The winner gets a little more reinforcement to that for winning it obviously. Not every compo needs to have a physical prize or monetary prize to get people to participate.
For me, it's a "No" for the final prize.
There's a Job section for doing programs on request and getting money from them.
But if anyone is able to kick out some cash for that, he's welcome.
There's a Job section for doing programs on request and getting money from them.
But if anyone is able to kick out some cash for that, he's welcome.
Personally I don't care how much time we have but I think spending 1-3 days should be enough to complete the entry. There are other things I like to do, other projects I want to finish, so I don't want to spend weeks on the same competition. I just want a short break from what I'm working on to do something fun and interesting and then be able to go back to what I was working on.
I think it would be good if the competitions was less open-ended so that you can't spend infinite time improving it. If you are done you are done and there is not much more you can do, except maybe improving the code quality.
I think it would be good if the competitions was less open-ended so that you can't spend infinite time improving it. If you are done you are done and there is not much more you can do, except maybe improving the code quality.
closed account (3qX21hU5)
Well it looks like most people are looking for a competition that is different from my opinion on how it should go so I think I will just bow out on this one, though look forward to maybe competing in some of the competitions. Wish you guys the best of luck.
| That will not work; people can easily lie. |
^^ looks like you saying all the people here would lie... Have some faith.
| You then stand the risk of losing creativity and originality. |
Your codes + extra function. The extra functions you can choose to do it or not (acts as an added challenge). Can't see where you can lose your creativity and originality.
| but who would sponsor the prize? |
What I meant by purse here is just some money collected from all that are willing to donate. It can be a $0 purse. BTW, I don't own a Paypal, all the money that I have online comes from the net itself (ads, game item sales, game account sale)
| Also, AFAIK the competition is meant to be fun and friendly. |
Does prize takes away the fun and friendliness?
| There are other things I like to do, other projects I want to finish, so I don't want to spend weeks on the same competition. |
What I meant by Possible time here is the time that you are willing to spent on the competitions. You can submit your codes whenever you finish it within time limit.
| I think it would be good if the competitions was less open-ended so that you can't spend infinite time improving it. If you are done you are done and there is not much more you can do, except maybe improving the code quality. |
I suggest the open-ended because most of the active users here are either working or busy with their studies. There is no such thing as infinite time (at least in my timetable). Work 10 hours + 2 hours of road time, 4-6 hours of sleep, 6 hours of down time with friends, family and myself.
| Then it won't be a monthly competition. |
Hmm, checking... Noted.
~~ I'm not defending my suggestions, I'm just clearing it up as far as I can because English is my 4th language, so it is hard for me to put my thought in the exact words that I want to.
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| I suggest the open-ended because most of the active users here are either working or busy with their studies. |
This.
This is why I didn't participate in the last one.
I'm definitely interested in this, but it'd have to be a length of time I'd be able to invest.
That said.... where was the site for this stuff? I didn't bookmark the link to it the last time it was posted.