Political views [me VS. teacher]
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So me and my teacher had a bit of an argument for a chunk of the day. At the end of class he concluded that, and I agreed with him that the question of consideration is: To what extent should my educational progress allow educational exploration. Keeping in mind due dates and time restrictions.
TLDR:
If I am caught up on my work, should I be allowed to lets say, read ahead on my text book or in a commtech class, if I am caught up on my work should I be allowed to fiddle with photoshop as long as he is teaching photoshop in this unit?
Express your opinions in full detail. I believe I should be allowed to explore.
TLDR:
If I am caught up on my work, should I be allowed to lets say, read ahead on my text book or in a commtech class, if I am caught up on my work should I be allowed to fiddle with photoshop as long as he is teaching photoshop in this unit?
Express your opinions in full detail. I believe I should be allowed to explore.
closed account (S6k9GNh0)
In my opinion, I don't even see the reason why someone should be restricted from moving ahead in their own right, just to let others keep up. Especially in USA where our entire society is pretty much based on being cut-throat.
EDIT: Or perhaps he tells you you don't actually have a good enough comprehension of the subject at hand or the reviewed material. If you don't believe as such, then not much you can do since it would be disruptive towards others. He wins either way.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "educational exploration".
EDIT: Or perhaps he tells you you don't actually have a good enough comprehension of the subject at hand or the reviewed material. If you don't believe as such, then not much you can do since it would be disruptive towards others. He wins either way.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "educational exploration".
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By educational exploration, I mean to learn things on your own by experimenting and exploring the subject further. This includes: experimentation and research. In this case, it has more to do with exploration. I am actually slightly ahead of the class because I have worked with Commtech tools as a hobby while everyone else is just starting.
Even though you may be caught up, how are you grades? if they are coming back all As, then I wouldn't see a problem with this as you are actually understanding the material. On the other hand, if your grades are not all that great, even high Cs, I would say if you have extra time then you should be re-reading your material on that specific class. ResidentBiscuit: I think the only reason would be if they weren't already grasping the material being presented, otherwise I agree with you.
Oh and this isn't about anything political really...
Oh and this isn't about anything political really...
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Any sane person would not need to ask such a question: to learn and understand is the path to success. Anyone who thinks you should be kept from learning more, is not some one you want to listen to... at all.
In the 1940's in Soviet Russia, during-after World War II, the government took away the educational system (I forget how, specifically, but the point is they wanted people to be stupid) and prevented people from becoming educated. The reason they did this was because they knew that anyone with an education, who could put the pieces together, who could see further than they could, was a threat to them (the government). Throughout all of history, there are countless examples of the ignoramus becoming ruled by the intellectuals.
Knowledge is power, don't ever forget that. Anyone who tells you differently is either a fool, or a pawn.
In the 1940's in Soviet Russia, during-after World War II, the government took away the educational system (I forget how, specifically, but the point is they wanted people to be stupid) and prevented people from becoming educated. The reason they did this was because they knew that anyone with an education, who could put the pieces together, who could see further than they could, was a threat to them (the government). Throughout all of history, there are countless examples of the ignoramus becoming ruled by the intellectuals.
Knowledge is power, don't ever forget that. Anyone who tells you differently is either a fool, or a pawn.
@OP
If you want to learn ahead of the class on your own, your best bet is to ask the instructor to excuse you to a study hall or lab to work. If that doesn't work do it on your own time. Bottom line it's at your instructors discretion to allow you to jump ahead during class.
Can you provide any references to this? I have never heard this before and find it hard to believe considering their anti-illiteracy policy during the 30's.
If you want to learn ahead of the class on your own, your best bet is to ask the instructor to excuse you to a study hall or lab to work. If that doesn't work do it on your own time. Bottom line it's at your instructors discretion to allow you to jump ahead during class.
| IWishIKnew wrote: |
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| In the 1940's in Soviet Russia, during-after World War II, the government took away the educational system (I forget how, specifically, but the point is they wanted people to be stupid) and prevented people from becoming educated. |
closed account (3qX21hU5)
| Can you provide any references to this? I have never heard this before and find it hard to believe considering their anti-illiteracy policy during the 30's. |
He made it sound like they abolished the whole education system but that isn't exactly true. They were really strict during the 1930's though 1950's though. They condemned a lot of researchers and education and didn't allow whole subjects like genetics to be studied or taught. Their education system was dominated by Marxist-Leninist ideology and any subject that they decided could be a threat to that ideology was condemned.
They didn't "take away" the educational system as IWishIknew said but they did put heavy restrictions on it. A lot of that has changed now though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_Soviet_Union
@OP
Like naraku said if you wish to study ahead of the class you might be able to work something out with your instructor, but in the end if he says that it isn't a option it is probably best to follow what he says and just study ahead on your own time.
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http://www.marxists.org/archive/chamberlin-william/1929/soviet-russia/ch12.htm
Read this. Controling what people learn is just as bad as preventing them from learning.
Obama's "Common Core" crap is based upon this: http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/1/OA
I don't know about you, but that site looks like it's full of sh!t. "Add and subract within 20" what the hell does that mean? I was adding tripple digit numbers before first grade.
Read this. Controling what people learn is just as bad as preventing them from learning.
Obama's "Common Core" crap is based upon this: http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/1/OA
I don't know about you, but that site looks like it's full of sh!t. "Add and subract within 20" what the hell does that mean? I was adding tripple digit numbers before first grade.
@IWishIKnew
That article does nothing to back up your previous claim.
Where do you get that it is based off of marxism? The standards are designed to ensure all students meet at least those requirements. Just because you could add triple digit numbers by first grade doesn't mean all first graders can.
That article does nothing to back up your previous claim.
| Obama's "Common Core" crap is based upon this: http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/1/OA I don't know about you, but that site looks like it's full of sh!t. "Add and subract within 20" what the hell does that mean? I was adding tripple digit numbers before first grade. |
@IWishIKnew
I dislike the way Common Core Standards are being implemented where I am, but your inferences (equating it with Marxism and Obama) is utter nonsense.
You are aware that the CCS comes from a bi-partisan committee, right? And that the Federal government had absolutely nothing to do with it? (And still does not.)
Your appraisal reminds me of an old Lil' Folks strip where Lucy comes upon Charlie Brown and Schroeder laughing at a picture in the newspaper. When asked why they are laughing at it, they reply that it is because they don't understand it.
There are people in southern Utah and the boonies in Virginia who can't pass the ASVAB necessary to join the Army -- a "passing" score is 22%.
I dislike the way Common Core Standards are being implemented where I am, but your inferences (equating it with Marxism and Obama) is utter nonsense.
You are aware that the CCS comes from a bi-partisan committee, right? And that the Federal government had absolutely nothing to do with it? (And still does not.)
Your appraisal reminds me of an old Lil' Folks strip where Lucy comes upon Charlie Brown and Schroeder laughing at a picture in the newspaper. When asked why they are laughing at it, they reply that it is because they don't understand it.
There are people in southern Utah and the boonies in Virginia who can't pass the ASVAB necessary to join the Army -- a "passing" score is 22%.
I will just say that my biggest issue with Common Core isn't the high-level stuff, but the elementary school standards, specifically in mathematics. It has nothing to do with "adding or subtracting within 20" or anything like that. It's the representation. The idea is so that they must think like "little mathematicians," but it tends to fail at that by forcing students to think of an otherwise-simple problem in much more convoluted examples. To quote a sample test question that I did see at one point, "add the fractions 2/5 and 3/8, then explain it in your own terms." They didn't fix the problem of teaching mathematics to students. They only tried to cover it up.
@Duos:
Let's be crystal clear: Just because it was voted on by a "bi-partisan" commitee (which has almost no meaning these days, anymore, thanks to our 'wonderful' president and the 1-party system) doesn't make it fair, right, or, in any moral sense, justified.
It starts with this, then it will gradually get worse until the people who were apathetic realize there 15-year-old children don't know how to add or subtract properly.
It took 20 years for the american revolution to boil up (and for far less reason than we have today), and it's only been a couple years with this dictator. Can't wait until people wake up.
@Ispil:
That's what I'm talking about, too. How does a teacher grade that?? It's complete nonsense.
Let's be crystal clear: Just because it was voted on by a "bi-partisan" commitee (which has almost no meaning these days, anymore, thanks to our 'wonderful' president and the 1-party system) doesn't make it fair, right, or, in any moral sense, justified.
It starts with this, then it will gradually get worse until the people who were apathetic realize there 15-year-old children don't know how to add or subtract properly.
It took 20 years for the american revolution to boil up (and for far less reason than we have today), and it's only been a couple years with this dictator. Can't wait until people wake up.
@Ispil:
That's what I'm talking about, too. How does a teacher grade that?? It's complete nonsense.
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Whether or not it has meaning is irrelevant -- it directly contradicts your anti-Obama/federal dictatorship-messing-with-education crap.
You have totally ignored the salient issues and instead focused on politics. What ever happened to the hard-core Republican 'politics should stay out of education' stuff? Did you miss it so much you had to add it into the conversation?
The whole point of CCS is not to tell teachers how to do stuff -- and curricula that do that are mistaken, which is my issue.
The point is that there is a list of minimum skills that students should have by a certain benchmark time. School districts and teachers are still supposed to be able teach the material according to their own needs.
And the example question isn't off. "Add 2/5 and 3/8 and explain it" isn't anything new to the subject material. Any treatment of fractions involves finding the LCM of the denominators, multiplying by 1=n/n to make the denominators the same, adding the numerators, and simplifying. The process and the explanation are the same thing. If you can do it, you can explain it, and that counts as a correct answer.
I'm sorry if you grew up in a school system where you didn't have to know this, because it was too hard, or it somehow requires you to "think like 'little mathematicians'."
I'm not so sure that understanding the process is all that opprobrious.
You have totally ignored the salient issues and instead focused on politics. What ever happened to the hard-core Republican 'politics should stay out of education' stuff? Did you miss it so much you had to add it into the conversation?
The whole point of CCS is not to tell teachers how to do stuff -- and curricula that do that are mistaken, which is my issue.
The point is that there is a list of minimum skills that students should have by a certain benchmark time. School districts and teachers are still supposed to be able teach the material according to their own needs.
And the example question isn't off. "Add 2/5 and 3/8 and explain it" isn't anything new to the subject material. Any treatment of fractions involves finding the LCM of the denominators, multiplying by 1=n/n to make the denominators the same, adding the numerators, and simplifying. The process and the explanation are the same thing. If you can do it, you can explain it, and that counts as a correct answer.
I'm sorry if you grew up in a school system where you didn't have to know this, because it was too hard, or it somehow requires you to "think like 'little mathematicians'."
I'm not so sure that understanding the process is all that opprobrious.
Duoas, I think you took the example to the wrong context. I don't mean explain in terms of the process. I mean explain in terms of grounding it in real life. Of course, the process is what we used to do, and was easy. Now when they imply "explain," that's not what they want. The common-core standards want it grounded in real-life applications. Also, keep the insults out of this please. I'd rather keep this civil.
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First, I've not insulted anyone. I've been pretty severe about the added political nonsense, though, because it is not civil discourse.
I've only lightly browsed the Mathematics CCS, but I don't recall seeing anything in there that expects children to have very significant real-life applications. What they expect is that students understand how to use it to do things. For elementary kids, this doesn't mean rocket science.
What they want is for math to be usable in real life for the kids. And even at the elementary level, it is -- or could be.
One of the difficulties is that elementary school teachers are afraid of math -- they themselves don't know how to apply it to real life. And whether or not they are explicit about it or not the idea that math is scary and hard and inapplicable to real life is also taught to elementary-age students.
Can you supply any spot where they mean what you say they mean?
I've only lightly browsed the Mathematics CCS, but I don't recall seeing anything in there that expects children to have very significant real-life applications. What they expect is that students understand how to use it to do things. For elementary kids, this doesn't mean rocket science.
What they want is for math to be usable in real life for the kids. And even at the elementary level, it is -- or could be.
One of the difficulties is that elementary school teachers are afraid of math -- they themselves don't know how to apply it to real life. And whether or not they are explicit about it or not the idea that math is scary and hard and inapplicable to real life is also taught to elementary-age students.
Can you supply any spot where they mean what you say they mean?
Yes, but I had superior schooling compared to most.
Which is one of the reasons nonsense thinking annoys me so much... I just wish my health didn't shut my brain down so regularly--I have to live in the lucid moments throughout the day.
Which is one of the reasons nonsense thinking annoys me so much... I just wish my health didn't shut my brain down so regularly--I have to live in the lucid moments throughout the day.
@Mats
We were taught how to memorise things for an exam, but I don't think that counts as learning. I'm good at reading comprehension and retention but I'm not sure if that counts either. To be honest, I'm not sure what it means to "know how to learn". I'm not very good at applying knowledge (I can understand most maths concepts intuitively enough, but I make frequent mistakes when I use them), but I don't know whether that's because of me or my education.
All in all I would call my education mediocre at best, but it did get better over time. I don't know whether that's because the schools and teachers were better, or because I was a better student, or because the subject matter was more complex, or just because the more recent things happened more recently. But I do remember reading Wikipedia's List of Common Misconceptions and thinking "They taught me that in primary school" for several items. Maybe primary school teachers aren't properly educated, seeing as they only need a degree in education and not in any specific subjects. I know I was a bad student overall, though. I was lazy. I still am, for that matter.
If it did, the kids would probably listen more. Kids love rockets.
How so?
We were taught how to memorise things for an exam, but I don't think that counts as learning. I'm good at reading comprehension and retention but I'm not sure if that counts either. To be honest, I'm not sure what it means to "know how to learn". I'm not very good at applying knowledge (I can understand most maths concepts intuitively enough, but I make frequent mistakes when I use them), but I don't know whether that's because of me or my education.
All in all I would call my education mediocre at best, but it did get better over time. I don't know whether that's because the schools and teachers were better, or because I was a better student, or because the subject matter was more complex, or just because the more recent things happened more recently. But I do remember reading Wikipedia's List of Common Misconceptions and thinking "They taught me that in primary school" for several items. Maybe primary school teachers aren't properly educated, seeing as they only need a degree in education and not in any specific subjects. I know I was a bad student overall, though. I was lazy. I still am, for that matter.
| Duoas wrote: |
|---|
| For elementary kids, this doesn't mean rocket science. |
If it did, the kids would probably listen more. Kids love rockets.
| I had superior schooling compared to most. |
How so?
Yes. They especially emphasized critical thinking skills as well. Unfortunately, that education is only provided in a small portion of the country (education that isn't BS, if you know what I mean).
The problem with the schools that don't teach well, is they teach by the book, when it isn't even practical. Take, for exaqmple, english. I moved and spent the last 2 years of my highschool in one of the worst school systems in America. The techer taught us about "eras" of writing (in which, apparently there was a common theme in leterature...). Needless to say, I had never heard of that before, probably because it's one of those nuances that only need to be known if you're planning on, or are, an expert in the field. I then realized how much I missed actually reading shakespear (as opposed to being spoon-fed paragraphs) from cover to cover. At least then I was challenged...
The problem with the schools that don't teach well, is they teach by the book, when it isn't even practical. Take, for exaqmple, english. I moved and spent the last 2 years of my highschool in one of the worst school systems in America. The techer taught us about "eras" of writing (in which, apparently there was a common theme in leterature...). Needless to say, I had never heard of that before, probably because it's one of those nuances that only need to be known if you're planning on, or are, an expert in the field. I then realized how much I missed actually reading shakespear (as opposed to being spoon-fed paragraphs) from cover to cover. At least then I was challenged...
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