I'm tired...

[3qX21hU5]

Phoenix Omega wrote:

If you have a problem with your neighbor, you aren't going to voice it where it can get back to them and stir up a hornets nest, but instead you will ignore it and learn to overlook it so you can live. Same should be for forums.

What!?!?! No offense but that is some of the worst advice to give. If you have a problem with someone doing something it is much better to politely talk to them about it then keep it bottled up. Soon or later you will hit your breaking point and cause much more damage then if you just talked to them.

If my neighbor is mowing his lawn at 4:30 in the morning am I just going to keep my mouth shut and lose sleep every night and suffer the consequences at work? No I am going to go over to that neighbor and let him know what he is doing is disrespectful to his neighbors so that he can change it. If that is somehow rude and negative then I give up on humanity.

The same goes for this forum.

Nothing good comes from ignoring problems around you.

What I meant by negative effects is that online, perception is key to a site's longevity. All parts of a site add to or subtract from a sites perception so things like rage quit, venting threads, and spam have serious potential to negatively change the perception of a site.

The same is true for the other way around. If you have a good number of members of the forum expressing their annoyance at something then you can be sure it also is most likely having a negative effect on the forum.

Personally I would put my money on the annoyances of the forums members causing a much bigger negative effect then them members voicing their annoyances.

If people view other people voicing their opinions as a negative then do we really want them on this forum?

[Dy7SLyTq]

Nothing good comes from ignoring problems around you.

thats how world war was started, or at the very least, escalated

[MrHutch]

Wow. Took a short break so this is the first time I've seen this. I'm surprised.

I think it's easy to forget that we're still a corner of the web on this forum. We have a lot of helpful members who genuinely strive to help out the best interests of posters. Given the often crude and juvenile nature of people on the internet, I find this quite rare. When a debate gets a little heated around these parts, it feels a little more significant that it might of on other sites. At least, that's how I view it.

I agree with a lot of the sentiments towards the 'final goodbye' post. It definitely came across as a bit of a 'toys-out-of-the-pram' situation. Regardless, it's always unfortunate to see a valuable and actively contributing member of the forums departs.

If CQ is reading, don't forget how easy it is to set up a new account. :-)

[TheBeardedQuack]

I agree with pretty much everything Disch said in his last post about the advice for when the site's not quite pleasing you anymore.

And also I have to agree with certain things like "thread games" being a little too far into the laid back nature of this forum. This entire webpage is supposed to be a place of a education, and the forums build a social society where we help and teach each other.

Majority of the forums is limited to C/C++ and C# appears from time to time, but in my opinion I feel the lounge is more a place to ask when you have questions to anything. The lounge is where we can help each other out to a wider scale.

This isn't a social site but still contains a community. And this community comes to this site to share in each others knowledge and wisdom, not to ask how old everyone is or start silly little games... Please goto Facebook or something for that?

Anyways this is just my opinion, as we are all entitled to our own.

[91qLy60M]

I was born and raised in Mississippi most of my life. This is the first three people that have ever had an issue with me saying sir. I was raised being told that sir was a respectful title for a man and ma'am was a respectful title for a woman. The only alternative I would feel comfortable with would be putting Mr. or Miss in front of usernames. It is more disrespectful to ask a person to stop doing what they have done their whole life so if I am forced to chose between sir/ma'am/Mr./Miss or this site; then I'll leave the site.

As for how to handle neighbors, I stick by what I said. The world has changed, there are some neighbors you can talk to and resolve your issues, but there are also neighbors that may react in the extreme resulting in harm to yourself. It is a hit or miss on that because you can never tell which kind of person they are. If the annoyance is worth the risk then go for talking to them. If not, don't.

[Disch]

I was born and raised in Mississippi most of my life.

That might explain it. The deep south has a lot of things other areas of the country/world find strange. This is sounding like one of them.

I was raised being told that sir was a respectful title for a man and ma'am was a respectful title for a woman.

I can tell you that everywhere I've lived (4 states spread across the east coast, west coast, and Midwest USA), women hated being called ma'am. Ellen DeGeneres even did a comedy bit about it back when she was doing standup.

Of course it's different depending on the culture you're in. Women where you live probably find it very pleasant.

I guess my point is.... there's this old saying... "when in Rome, do as the Romans do". When going to other cultures, it's respectful to adapt to those cultures. The general consensus with the culture on this forum is that referring people to sir is not necessarily respectful. Even if that's what you mean to do... it is not how it is being perceived.

It is more disrespectful to ask a person to stop doing what they have done their whole life

It's hard to respond to this without sounding rude.... how about an example...

Say there's this heavyset guy from some other state (let's say Wisconsin for an example). He's extremely friendly. Where he's from, it's common for people to give each other bear hugs and maybe even a peck on the cheek. So the way he was raised, and the way he lived his entire life.. that's what he did. Every time he greeted someone, he'd give them a big hug and a kiss.

So this guy moves out of Wisconsin and into your town in Mississippi. You meet him and you guys become pretty good friends. Once you're good friends, he starts greeting you that way: big bear hug + kiss on the cheek.

But let's say that makes you feel uncomfortable. You don't like it.

The question now is... would it be rude of you to tell him you don't like it and ask him to stop? Of course not. Regardless of the fact that he's done it his entire life... you don't see it as being flattering, and you'd rather he not do it.

The other question is... would it be rude of him to continue doing it even after you asked him to stop?. I'd say yes... it absolutely would.




Replace "bear hug + kiss" with "calling people sir/ma'am"... and instead of moving from WI to MI, it's moving from MI to this internet forum. And that sums up the situation we have here.

You are doing something that is extremely polite and perfectly acceptable in your culture, but when you are on this forum you are not in your culture, so it is not being perceived in the way you intended.

if I am forced to chose between sir/ma'am/Mr./Miss or this site; then I'll leave the site.

I think that's a bit of an overreaction. But whatever.

As for how to handle neighbors, I stick by what I said. The world has changed, there are some neighbors you can talk to and resolve your issues, but there are also neighbors that may react in the extreme resulting in harm to yourself. It is a hit or miss on that because you can never tell which kind of person they are. If the annoyance is worth the risk then go for talking to them. If not, don't.

I agree that it depends entirely on the people. There's no one-size-fits-all answer when dealing with people.

[N36fSL3A]

You can call me sir anytime Phoenix Omega sir.

[91qLy60M]

Disch wrote:

That might explain it. The deep south has a lot of things other areas of the country/world find strange. This is sounding like one of them.

Sir, your solution is to insult my upbringing by calling it strange at the same time insulting the south?

I think that's a bit of an overreaction. But whatever.

Starting to understand why you had two members delete their accounts, but I wouldn't do that.

You all post what you think without giving a single second of thought at how it will come across. I joined Cprogramming.com at the same time as here and not once has any of them said a word about me saying sir or ma'am. In my short time on this one and the other, it has become very clear that they are more accepting of a person as a whole.

Albatross, ma'am, I'd say this community will never reach what you claimed as long as you have members that are unaccepting of people because of how they talk or where they are from.

[z05DSL3A]

Benjamin Franklin wrote:

Savages we call them because their manners differ from ours.

Get over it and move on ... please.

[Computergeek01]

@ Phoenix Omega: Calling something strange is not an insult, it's an observation. It doesn't imply that what ever it is cannot be excepted. You state that you were raised to call people "sir" and "ma'am", and that it is part of your culture. Those same words have a different connotation in the Internets subculture and that is to patronize the person you are talking to. It is used to try to seen overly polite while at the same time being completely dismissive of the other parties opinions or ideas.

@ Lumpkin: You're a middle child aren't you? I think I can tell because I am to.

[Disch]

Sir, your solution is to insult my upbringing by calling it strange at the same time insulting the south?

At no point was I intending to be insulting. I apologize. I merely stated the culture is different. I'm sure there are things about northern/western/eastern culture that the south finds strange.

Nobody is right or wrong. Different regions have different culture. What is normal and acceptable in one area may be considered rude in another. That's all I was (and am) saying.

You all post what you think without giving a single second of thought at how it will come across.

I actually put a lot of effort into my post because I was trying very hard not to appear insulting. Apparently I failed, and once again I must apologize.

I am not saying you are wrong. I'm just saying your actions are not being perceived the way you intend them to be because of a difference in culture.

[Albatross]

I think you misunderstood me, Phoenix. This community had reached it once. I'm under the impression that it's since decayed into a somewhat more... I don't know. Touchy environment? Something like that. EDIT: This may just be being sentimental and I may be imagining it, but I'd like to think that I'm not. :)

I personally have no problem with the whole sir/ma'am thing, though I hope you won't mind if we don't respond in kind. It's different from any behavior we've seen here before, and yes I can see how some would view it as condescending.

I have an idea for a compromise. How about if someone requests to not be called sir or ma'am then you (Phoenix) will not call them as such, but otherwise we won't object to you calling others as such? How does that sound to everyone?

-Albatross

[Disch]

I'm under the impression that it's since decayed into a somewhat more... I don't know. Touchy environment? Something like that. EDIT: This may just be being sentimental and I may be imagining it, but I'd like to think that I'm not. :)

I concur. I don't think you're imagining it at all.

[Null]

@PhoenixOmega:

wikipedia wrote:

The term [sir] is often reserved for use only
towards one of superior rank or status, such
as an educator, or as a form of address from a
merchant to a customer

this is why I'd hate to be called sir. We are all equal here and when you call someone sir, for me it sounds as if you are somehow inferior

[Albatross]

@Null
There's nothing wrong with being voluntarily submissive, is there? ._.

-Albatross

[Disch]

With things like usage of "sir", context is everything.

But both sides of this seem like they're creating unnecessary friction. It seems strange to me that someone would care enough to be annoyed by it.... yet it seems equally strange to me that someone would get upset by people getting annoyed by it.


Regardless, I think I might only be making the situation worse, so I'm going to bow out.

@Phoenix Omega:

Once again I want to stress that I, in no way, was intending to be offensive or insulting. I only wished to attempt to shine some light onto the viewpoint of some others here on the forums. I really hope this misunderstanding won't turn you off to the forums.

[Garion]

I don't think they are interested in a discussion about cultural norms Disch.

I think they just want to continue with their game. A better course would be to ignore them than try to educate somebody about different cultures over the internet.

Also, where is the ignore feature for the forums?

[LB]

If you take offense from something from which offense should not be taken, then why should anyone apologize?

It's like being offended that a store doesn't carry your religious supplies - should the store apologize? Unfortunately the store does apologize in real life, but that's because they want you to spend more money.

[G30GNwbp]

I can't believe I was stupid enough to read this thread twice.

[N36fSL3A]

I can't believe you're cluttering this thread with useless spam.

EDIT:

@ Lumpkin: You're a middle child aren't you? I think I can tell because I am to.

Why yes I am. What did I do to make it obvious?

EDIT2: Wait, you guys are seriously arguing over this? lol.