Love Programming but not learning

[EwCjE3v7]

Hello there,
So I have a problom, I love to program but hate to learn it like I just can't open my book and read and do the excercises from there. Can someone help me?

[J4ke]

I think you have a case of the hate for actual work--which unfortunately, won't get you very far.

[chrisname]

It's a lack of motivation or self-discipline (or the motivation to discipline yourself). Only you can fix it, really, though a therapist might be able to help and suggest some strategies for developing it. I think it's a combination of personality type (other people can't motivate me, I'm too obstinate) and learning as a child that the adults will fix everything if you screw up, leaving you with this bad attitude. Personally I never did much about it and now I might have failed my degree by missing an exam (genuinely forgot about it, Idk how). You can be exceptionally good at something and still fail if you aren't motivated and disciplined. I was one of the top in my CS class having learned a lot of it beforehand, but there are people on that course who can barely write coherently and they'll scrape passes because they put in just enough effort. I could have been a straight A student but I've always been too lazy and disorganised. At every level of education I've told myself "This time I will work hard" and it lasted for maybe a few weeks and then I petered out, stopped going to class, stopped handing work on time. It's entirely my own fault, and it will be the same for you if you don't change your attitude and fast.

Sorry for turning this thread into My Personal Blog but it might help you to see what can happen if you don't change your attitude.

[EwCjE3v7]

J4ke

I think you have a case of the hate for actual work--which unfortunately, won't get you very far.

I know :(


chrisname

It's a lack of motivation or self-discipline (or the motivation to discipline yourself). Only you can fix it, really, though a therapist might be able to help and suggest some strategies for developing it. I think it's a combination of personality type (other people can't motivate me, I'm too obstinate) and learning as a child that the adults will fix everything if you screw up, leaving you with this bad attitude. Personally I never did much about it and now I might have failed my degree by missing an exam (genuinely forgot about it, Idk how). You can be exceptionally good at something and still fail if you aren't motivated and disciplined. I was one of the top in my CS class having learned a lot of it beforehand, but there are people on that course who can barely write coherently and they'll scrape passes because they put in just enough effort. I could have been a straight A student but I've always been too lazy and disorganised. At every level of education I've told myself "This time I will work hard" and it lasted for maybe a few weeks and then I petered out, stopped going to class, stopped handing work on time. It's entirely my own fault, and it will be the same for you if you don't change your attitude and fast.

Sorry for turning this thread into My Personal Blog but it might help you to see what can happen if you don't change your attitude.

Thank you, its the same for me I start, keep it up for some time and drop like now :(.

I know what you mean I have the same case you had and you aren`t really changing the topic to a blog you are just telling me what happened to you and that you(I) need to fix it fast.

And yea I really put stuff on my mum and dad alot, my dad is a doctor and dosn`t know much about computers but him and my mum try to motivate me from time to time but I don`t really think I can just tell them now so I came here to see if anyone was in a case like me. (When he finishes a powerpoint he tells me to add some cool banners and stuff)

Now I turned it into my blog :).
Thanks

[Disch]

IMO.. you shouldn't listen to that "lack of motivation" nonsense. That's crap.

Furthermore.... nobody hates learning. Everyone loves it.

What you actually hate is the traditional "rote" style of learning where you read a book and try to forcibly cram information into your brain.

You're not alone. Most people (including myself) hate that approach. It's partly why kids hate school so much ... they force that style onto you, when most people's brains simply don't work that way.

So it's not that you're unmotivated or lazy. It's just that you are trying to absorb material in a way your brain is not wired to absorb it. And thus are putting yourself though a horribly inefficient and painful process that you have difficulty tolerating.


The real question here is... how does your brain work? How do you learn?

Unfortunately nobody can answer that question for you... since it's different for everyone. You'll have to figure it out on your own. And it's really important that you do... not just for programming, but as a general life skill.

I personally learn best by visual example, with reinforcing by applying the knowledge to new problems. I can read a book back to front and memorize every word, and none of the knowledge will stick. I need to see what it's talking about in action before it really sinks in.

It comes across in my forum posts, too. If you ever see me explaining something to someone, I almost always try to accompany my explanation with a simple example.

Here's some examples of how I often give examples:
http://www.cplusplus.com/forum/general/121143/#msg659395
http://www.cplusplus.com/forum/general/123141/#msg670722




So yeah. It sounds to me that reading books on programming simply isn't the right approach for you. Find out what works for you. Then start learning that way.

But if you love programming.. then program! Sit down and start writing code! Maybe that's how you learn.

[Computergeek01]

I want to add that even if you are one of those drones that do learn well through rote memorization, books are still a terrible medium to relay on to understand something as complex as programming. They're fine for getting you started but then what? Do you waste time trying to memorize the same paragraphs over and over when you should be applying what you retained and building experience?

"You can't grep dead trees"

[BHX]

Seems a little contradicting doesn't it? To love programming but claim you hate learning. Programming is one thing where you never stop learning.

Disch wrote:

Furthermore.... nobody hates learning. Everyone loves it.

I think everyone learns without knowing it, but when it comes to being required to actually make yourself learn it, then some may hate it. I love learning, personally and regularly go do Project Euler and Khan Academy.

Also, some students prove that some people hate learning. There are tons of kids that hate learning and don't want to so they refuse to do anything for schools or drop out just to avoid it.

[EwCjE3v7]

@Disch

Thanks, well what I`ve noticed is that I only like learning when there is something fun to it, like if an exercise tells me to make a Tic tac toe game, I`ll be on it straight away but if it tells me to go write code for figuring this problem I just can`t seem to go and do it.(like a maths question, and you might be saying "oh so you hate maths", I don`t I love it, its simple for me and I got 100% this winter ;) )

I`ve heard around the place that bookworms are the way to go for programming but I hate reading, not that I can`t seem to read it (yea there are a few words here and there that I don`t understand) so I don`t really know how I can be one of them bookworms :)

I need to find a way I love learning.

@Computergeek01

Why would you memorize something? Like its for learning not to go and memorize it and not understand :/

I might have misunderstood you.

And books are the way to go, well thats what I have learned and its about getting started that matters so if I want to go create a special program, the book isn`t going to have instructions for that, is it?
So if you learn C++ for example and GUI you can surely make a some type of new program.

simplified

And books are the way to go, well thats what I have learned and its about getting started that matters so if I want to go create a special program, the book isn`t going to have instructions for that, is it?
So if you learn C++ for example and GUI you can surely make a some type of new program.

A book isn`t going to go tell you how to make a program that you have thought of(just you no one else)

[IWishIKnew]

@YellowPyrmid

Well, you could jump into it. Read up on this website. There are plenty of references. It will be hard at first, but you will get the hang of it.

[EwCjE3v7]

@YellowPyrmid

Well, you could jump into it. Read up on this website. There are plenty of references. It will be hard at first, but you will get the hang of it.

I have C++ Primer 5th edition and I`m learning from that currently.
Thanks anyway.

[IWishIKnew]

No, I mean start writing programs. I am self-taught, and I never read books. You won't learn anything by reading. C++ is a language, and like any other, you can study all you want and it won't mean squat if you don't practice.

When I started, all I did was use functions, loops, and other basic flow-control. If I came across something I didn't know, I looked it up. If I couldn't find it, then I posted on the forum.

Study and practice are two different things. You should try to practice what you learn as you learn it.

[BHX]

IWishIKnew wrote:

You won't learn anything by reading.

IWishIKnew wrote:

If I came across something I didn't know, I looked it up. If I couldn't find it, then I posted on the forum.

You have to read and then implement what you read. This is how you learn math, english, and literature as well as things like public speaking course and even programming (and many other things). If you have never programmed before you have to read in order to understand things like data types, functions, loops, flow-control, etc. Also, if you are looking it up or asking on here you still have to read in order to implement what they are telling you.

If reading didn't help people learn, then there would be no need for Bjarne to write his books, no reason to buy course books for college degrees. If you didn't learn from reading, we would have fewer people that give out pointless trivia they learned by reading.

Just because you don't like to learn by reading or that you don't learn anything by reading doesn't mean others are like you.

[EwCjE3v7]

No, I mean start writing programs. I am self-taught, and I never read books. You won't learn anything by reading. C++ is a language, and like any other, you can study all you want and it won't mean squat if you don't practice.

When I started, all I did was use functions, loops, and other basic flow-control. If I came across something I didn't know, I looked it up. If I couldn't find it, then I posted on the forum.

Study and practice are two different things. You should try to practice what you learn as you learn it.

I agree with the practice part but not the do not read just practice.
You need both as I believe.

You have to read and then implement what you read. This is how you learn math, english, and literature as well as things like public speaking course and even programming (and many other things). If you have never programmed before you have to read in order to understand things like data types, functions, loops, flow-control, etc. Also, if you are looking it up or asking on here you still have to read in order to implement what they are telling you.

If reading didn't help people learn, then there would be no need for Bjarne to write his books, no reason to buy course books for college degrees. If you didn't learn from reading, we would have fewer people that give out pointless trivia they learned by reading.

Just because you don't like to learn by reading or that you don't learn anything by reading doesn't mean others are like you.

+1
If I hadn`t read anything on c++ would I be jumping even into compiling?

[Austin J]

It's a lack of motivation or self-discipline (or the motivation to discipline yourself). Only you can fix it, really, though a therapist might be able to help and suggest some strategies for developing it. I think it's a combination of personality type (other people can't motivate me, I'm too obstinate) and learning as a child that the adults will fix everything if you screw up, leaving you with this bad attitude. Personally I never did much about it and now I might have failed my degree by missing an exam (genuinely forgot about it, Idk how). You can be exceptionally good at something and still fail if you aren't motivated and disciplined. I was one of the top in my CS class having learned a lot of it beforehand, but there are people on that course who can barely write coherently and they'll scrape passes because they put in just enough effort. I could have been a straight A student but I've always been too lazy and disorganised. At every level of education I've told myself "This time I will work hard" and it lasted for maybe a few weeks and then I petered out, stopped going to class, stopped handing work on time. It's entirely my own fault, and it will be the same for you if you don't change your attitude and fast.

That goes deep man...

Honestly feel like I've just seen an older version of myself, because I've had people tell me I have these characteristics a million times now.

[IWishIKnew]

Yall are misunderstanding me. I did not say that reading didn't help or that he shouldn't read. I said you learn nothing by reading, meaning that if the only thing you do is read, you aren't going to be able to just close the book and write your first program without flaw.

Do not infer meanings from what I say.

[jheard901]

I'd have to agree most with #Disch on this topic. It mostly comes down to what way of learning works the most for you. For me it comes from mostly being able to figure out how what I learn in C++ can be applied in creating games. I am only just learning about using API's which play a rather major role in rendering the graphics of games both 2D and 3D.

I think the best way to learn programming is through just doing it, do not bother reading a book - no exceptions - go to work coding and Google will be your best friend. And if you are really clueless on how to do something, the forums or other more experienced programmers will be your best friend.

@chrisname I have felt like that at times but then I discovered this book "Finding Flow" by Csikszentmihalyi which is like the most awesome book at giving people the knowledge to change. And watching GDC videos usually every morning (the free ones) were a great influence in inspiration to stay focused thinking about what the future beholds.

[BHX]

IWishIKnew wrote:

No, I mean start writing programs. I am self-taught, and I never read books. You won't learn anything by reading. C++ is a language, and like any other, you can study all you want and it won't mean squat if you don't practice.
....
When I started, all I did was use functions, loops, and other basic flow-control. If I came across something I didn't know, I looked it up. If I couldn't find it, then I posted on the forum.

You have to be careful when giving personal experiences. We didn't infer anything from what you said. It came across like that because of how you said it. The way you said it made it seem like you were saying he shouldn't read because you never did and to just jump into writing code in order to learn.

[cire]

I said you learn nothing by reading, meaning that if the only thing you do is read, you aren't going to be able to just close the book and write your first program without flaw.

You learn by reading. You refine your knowledge and understanding with practice.

[ETAkoG1T]

I haven't read all of the comments, but I have the same thing just opposite of what you are describing. I like learning new stuff, but am not very good at focusing on projects. Now I almost don't program anymore because every project I make for myself to practice ends up with a mess.

[EwCjE3v7]

You don`t go into hard stuff, try these. They will keep you busy.
http://www.cplusplus.com/forum/articles/12974/