Adoption by Homosexual Couples
@Nathan2222
I reposted my prevoious post again - this time I change the word god for God.
Can you now answer my question?
I reposted my prevoious post again - this time I change the word god for God.
Can you now answer my question?
@Nathan2222:
To rephrase my question - if the trillions of other species never heard of Jesus Christ -then are they going to hell - has all their inhabitants since they have existed all gone to hell (those that died already?)
To rephrase my question - if the trillions of other species never heard of Jesus Christ -then are they going to hell - has all their inhabitants since they have existed all gone to hell (those that died already?)
Come on Nathan2222, try to answer this question straight without waffeling - there may be some Bongo from the Congo reading these posts and your waffeling isn't going to lead him to the salvation you hope it would.
EDIT: spelling
EDIT: spelling
Last edited on
@Nathan - Response to the article
Actually things can appear before their cause. Causality is not considered a fundamental property of the universe. Source: Quantum mechanics
Given this is a fundamental argument used by the article, it's already on pretty shaky grounds. It also makes sentences such as:
Seem pretty bad. Not to mention that time and time again I have said that to ask for the cause of the big bang is an nonsense question to begin with...
Acknowledging something is complex and then saying how can it produce something complex is pretty weird. "Bouncing particles" shows a fundamental error in understanding of QM. =/
We actually know their cause...
Fundamental misunderstanding of weight.
Yeah that article is pretty bad. It probably wouldn't even make it to the Daily Mail, possibly (definitely) the UK's worst newspaper for posting badly researched science.
| Something can't come from that which does not exist, so the universe requires a cause from something. |
Actually things can appear before their cause. Causality is not considered a fundamental property of the universe. Source: Quantum mechanics
Given this is a fundamental argument used by the article, it's already on pretty shaky grounds. It also makes sentences such as:
| Why do you need to hold out to know all things to know if the universe requires a cause |
Seem pretty bad. Not to mention that time and time again I have said that to ask for the cause of the big bang is an nonsense question to begin with...
| How can all the complexities of quantum mechanics produce a mind, for they are just laws of nature, variables and constants, exhibiting action and reaction, cause and effect?Bouncing particles |
Acknowledging something is complex and then saying how can it produce something complex is pretty weird. "Bouncing particles" shows a fundamental error in understanding of QM. =/
| Just because you can't see the cause to virtual particles that seem to pop into existence, it is very wrong to assume that they do so because you are not smart enough to see their cause |
We actually know their cause...
| (even Quarks, Strings and the Higgs Field are weightless) |
Fundamental misunderstanding of weight.
Yeah that article is pretty bad. It probably wouldn't even make it to the Daily Mail, possibly (definitely) the UK's worst newspaper for posting badly researched science.
| Christ is really talking to satan. |
Okay, so then that quote does not suggest Christ is saying you are either of God or of Satan. And while he is definitely saying people should follow God, he does not say you are a fool not to... nor does he say failure to do so makes you "of Satan".
At least not in this particular passage.
There's been a lot of heated discussion... so allow me to recap here. You made 2 claims previously:
1) Jesus said only a fool does not believe in God.
2) Jesus taught that if you are not of God, then you are of Satan.
I am specifically looking for scripture where this is stated. Because my current understanding is that neither of these are true.
Also..
3) I am very curious as to exactly what the connection is between Jesus' death and our sins being absolved. Because I fail to see how the two are linked. It seems to me that God could have absolved our sins without requiring Jesus be sacrificed.
| it means you believe no matter how small so i see nothing wrong in picking up His book and trying to understand it without any expectation of fact. |
Well... it means I am interested in it as a topic. Drawing any further conclusions from that might not be a good idea.
Allow me to clarify... my goal is not necessarily to find faith or start believing in God.. it is merely to understand Christianity as a whole.
I like to understand things.
| [gave some links] |
The first link does not have Bible passages, which is really what I'm looking for.
The second link does, but has a lot of information that does not directly answer my 3 points outlined above. Can you narrow down a bit and give me info that more directly addresses my questions?
Thanks.
closed account (iAk3T05o)
What are you looking for? Fact that God exists? A text sent to me by God?
I don't have those because God defies science which is about facts and i don't believe in the scientific fact of God's existence. It is this scientific defiance that makes God impossible but that's what makes God God and what makes Him different.
Know one thing, Christ is God, God is Christ.
If you attempting to find fact that God exists, you are attempting to do what I cannot do, attempting to go against you religion and everything you believe in, you are trying to be more all knowing than God is. You are attempting to know what only God knows. Thankfully, God has shown us through Christ that He exists but just like the article and bible, you will pick out that which contradicts you. You won't believe.
I can't believe in something that tells me that all there is is get born, live and die, without any purpose.
Believing in Christ is about faith not fact. Thank God at least some atheists see the light and convert to Christianity.
You claim science (God is omniscience) and that God isn't omnipotent, omniscience, omnipresent etc. but if He wasn't all knowing, the truth would have been uncovered by now. It won't be "there's no God", "prove He exists" etc. It'll be "science has finally gotten definite proof of that God doesn't exist and we have a video, test and etc. to prove it".
I don't have those because God defies science which is about facts and i don't believe in the scientific fact of God's existence. It is this scientific defiance that makes God impossible but that's what makes God God and what makes Him different.
Know one thing, Christ is God, God is Christ.
If you attempting to find fact that God exists, you are attempting to do what I cannot do, attempting to go against you religion and everything you believe in, you are trying to be more all knowing than God is. You are attempting to know what only God knows. Thankfully, God has shown us through Christ that He exists but just like the article and bible, you will pick out that which contradicts you. You won't believe.
I can't believe in something that tells me that all there is is get born, live and die, without any purpose.
Believing in Christ is about faith not fact. Thank God at least some atheists see the light and convert to Christianity.
You claim science (God is omniscience) and that God isn't omnipotent, omniscience, omnipresent etc. but if He wasn't all knowing, the truth would have been uncovered by now. It won't be "there's no God", "prove He exists" etc. It'll be "science has finally gotten definite proof of that God doesn't exist and we have a video, test and etc. to prove it".
Last edited on
| I can't believe in something that tells me that all there is is get born, live and die, without any purpose. |
| Thank God at least some atheists see the light and convert to Christianity. |
@Nathan2222:
Was your response directed at me - if it was it still doesn't answer my question at all. Do you need me to repost my previous post?
If it wasn't directed at me then please do respond to my explicit question asked.
If you don't know the answer then I suggest you print out my proof and take it to your church leaders and see if they can provide a straight answer.
My personal belief is that even your church leaders will not be able to answer my question and will inwardly all think "Shit we never considered this" and will find it near impossible to continue believing that Christianity is the only true religion.
Was your response directed at me - if it was it still doesn't answer my question at all. Do you need me to repost my previous post?
If it wasn't directed at me then please do respond to my explicit question asked.
If you don't know the answer then I suggest you print out my proof and take it to your church leaders and see if they can provide a straight answer.
My personal belief is that even your church leaders will not be able to answer my question and will inwardly all think "Shit we never considered this" and will find it near impossible to continue believing that Christianity is the only true religion.
closed account (iAk3T05o)
Your bet is wrong.
My church leaders share my view and the view of many people.
Yes it does mean Christianity is the one true religion, yes it does mean by your calculations, 30% will go to heaven. Read revelations, you will find something in there that will give you a view on how many people will go to heaven.
@helios:
How can your life have any meaning without God? I had almost tried it and realised it leads no where.
Your religion won't let you understand.
Christ teaches you should pray for your enemies and non-believers so that they may see the light.
My church leaders share my view and the view of many people.
Yes it does mean Christianity is the one true religion, yes it does mean by your calculations, 30% will go to heaven. Read revelations, you will find something in there that will give you a view on how many people will go to heaven.
@helios:
How can your life have any meaning without God? I had almost tried it and realised it leads no where.
Your religion won't let you understand.
Christ teaches you should pray for your enemies and non-believers so that they may see the light.
| helios wrote: |
|---|
| Are you saying being the victim of vehicular homicide is immoral? If you need to "accept Jesus into your heart" to not go to Hell, where do stillborn babies go? What about people who can't comprehend your message? Conversely, if rather more theoretical, what would it mean if a non-human species became capable of understanding human language and actually accepted him? |
Off topic of the off topic here, but there's this really interesting webcomic that pulls off a unique twist into the Heaven-Purgatory-Hell interpretation. It even attempts to account for situations where a person is killed or a baby is stillborn. I'd mention the name, but the comic is provocative and contains a decent amount of gore. :V
| How can your life have any meaning without God? |
(!x => !y) is not equivalent to (x => y)
"Godlessness implies meaninglessness" is not the same as "Godfulness implies meaningfulness". I asked how God's existence gives your life meaning. I have come to terms with the inherent meaninglessness of life.
| Your religion won't let you understand. |
| Christ teaches you should pray for your enemies and non-believers so that they may see the light. |
You're still not answering my questions.
| yes it does mean by your calculations, 30% will go to heaven. |
So you are claiming that the rest of the universe [±4000,000,000 souls per species * trillions of species] are all going to hell because they never heard of Jesus Christ.
So what if all these other souls never heard of Jesus Christ - is God really going to send them to hell for something they had absolutely no control over?
Christ teaches you should pray for your enemies and non-believers so that they may see the light |
I always found science QUIET illuminating
closed account (10X9216C)
The universe and everything in it was created for the soul purpose for us humans by god. Yet ... only 0.0000000000000000000001% (estimated) of this universe that god created just for us is habitable. Kind of a waste of space don't you think?
"If the moon was a single pixel" http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html
"If the moon was a single pixel" http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html
closed account (iAk3T05o)
No, i can't. I've been doing that.
As i remember, a person was said to not exist because she converted to christianity from atheism. I can't tell you anything because i believe the reply won't be what i expect.
This is something you have to be willing to do, it's not something that can be forced. I can hope that you find the willingness.
Any species you are referring to other than the human species does what they are to do. They aren't humans and are not affected by our inability to realise what is true. They know of the one true God because He made them.
Why should God allow you access to any other world other than the one made for your behaviour when you can't even properly your own world. You want to start sewing a new cloth when you've ripped, torn and stained your present cloth.
As i remember, a person was said to not exist because she converted to christianity from atheism. I can't tell you anything because i believe the reply won't be what i expect.
This is something you have to be willing to do, it's not something that can be forced. I can hope that you find the willingness.
Any species you are referring to other than the human species does what they are to do. They aren't humans and are not affected by our inability to realise what is true. They know of the one true God because He made them.
Why should God allow you access to any other world other than the one made for your behaviour when you can't even properly your own world. You want to start sewing a new cloth when you've ripped, torn and stained your present cloth.
Last edited on
@Disch:
Mathew 12:30
Anyone who isn't with me opposes me, and anyone who isn't working with me is actually working against me.
Mathew 12:30
Anyone who isn't with me opposes me, and anyone who isn't working with me is actually working against me.
closed account (10X9216C)
| Why should God allow you access to any other world other than the one made for your behaviour when you can't even properly your own world. You want to start sewing a new cloth when you've ripped, torn and stained your present cloth. |
That's only really happened recently because of overpopulation as death rates go down and people live longer lives. There's an inherit design flaw in god's design if the universe was created for the sole purpose of us. Why not create a world like minecraft where people can just walk around and generate new land infinitely? Either there's a flaw with god's design (which can't be possible cause he's the "neo") or people are misinterpreting how important they actually are.
| Any species you are referring to other than the Homo sapien species (humans) does what they are to do |
which may be to practice xcism or whatever religion God gave them to practice - just to clarify - this is what you mean by this?
| Why should God allow you access to any other world other than the one made for your behaviour when you can't even properly your own world. |
because I have a brain that already allowed my species (human) to visit the moon and other nearby planets via robotics.
it is thus logical to extrapolate that we should reach that point at some time in the future.
Or we can also restate the question - why shouldn't God allow us to visit other planets with other life forms present - where in the word of God does it say so?
closed account (iAk3T05o)
When you reached "do what they are to do", didn't you continue reading? Please read it all, it's not to practice xcism.
We can't access other parts of the universe because while it was made for us, the problem happened when Adam and Eve disobeyed God. We lost the ability to see God, face-to-face as well as other things and that access.
We can't access other parts of the universe because while it was made for us, the problem happened when Adam and Eve disobeyed God. We lost the ability to see God, face-to-face as well as other things and that access.