Ego?

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Run into people like that all the time. Once you start helping them they feel like you've signed a contract to put up with them and basically do everything for them.

Blaming the educational system is logical I suppose. Where I am, school is a joke really but students still fail and are literally handed every opportunity to succeed. After they reject these opportunities they still somehow graduate. After being hand feed, I suppose that outlook followed them around.
I think most of what we see as rudeness can actually be explained by ignorance.

Keep in mind that some new users come here not knowing anything about the forum. They don't know that we're volunteers, they don't read the guidelines on asking questions any more than we read a site's "terms of service." They ask poorly formed questions just like I'd ask incompetent questions of an architect. They are angry and frustrated because they've been getting nowhere with their code for hours or days. They delete their posts because they didn't get the memo that our little tribe frowns on it.

For all they know, cplusplus.com is a huge multinational corporation that owns and distributes the C++ language and this is the customer service hotline. "ANSWER MY QUESTION OR GET ME SOMEONE WHO CAN!" is a reasonable reaction.

In short: they are human.

I can only think of one time that I've abandoned a question. It was a case where the user just refused to do the things I suggested. In the end I posted that I didn't think I could help him/her and maybe someone else would. Easy peasy.

Honestly, I see far FAR more rudeness from people answering questions than I do from people asking them.

So don't take it personally. The 4,000'th person who posts code without code tags is doing it for the very first time themselves. The person who expects you to jump doesn't know you're a volunteer. The kid who doesn't understand basic syntax just started learning the language yesterday. The guy who wants a cut & paste solution has been cutting and pasting in every other subject for their entire school career and doesn't realize that it doesn't work in programming.
Thank you, dhayden, I needed that. I admit I often forget to check my own behavior responses and the reactions I know they will invariably cause, and get frustrated. (Sorry I’ve been missing for a few days... doesn’t look like I missed much, though.)

I still find it annoying to put “large” effort into a post only to collect crap from people who ought to know better and lack of care from the asker.

(That’s actually a bit of a pet peeve of mine, and I see it in people all the time these days —they go to inordinate effort to ask a question, then treat your answer as chaff. Why ask a question if you don’t actually care about the answer(s)? So... perhaps I need to be less annoyed and accept the fact that ppl R dumb abt how to forum.)


Also, thank you, Grey wolf. You typically come across to me as fairly zen about stuff —much more well-balanced with other people’s crap than I am.



’Cause for me there is a difference between not seeing eye to eye, and being an a-hole about it. And as I've gotten older, I guess, I am less tolerant of the a-holerey and armchair versions of reality, causing me to become rude. People like to pontificate all the time, without believing actual science and learning are superior to their own ability to reason things out. It is the very reason I often don’t participate in some discussions —because I don’t know enough to say anything useful. But, my wife says that makes me weird. Most guys don’t know when to shut up because they are too full of ego to know how ignorant they are about any given subject, believing that their self-assessed intelligence is sufficient to make up the difference. There’s actually a fairly well-known (nowdays) term for it: the Dunning-Kruger effect. The problem is that we are too narcissistic to believe that the DK effect refers to us. We tend to take it as meaning us few smarter-than-normal people vs the hoardes of stupid people, and our perception of cohort is suitably twisted. Whereas the reality is that most people are very intelligent, and stupidity is perception.

That does explain a lot of bad behavior. Something I often forget online.

I suppose I just cannot fathom that some university student studying, of all things, computer science, can really believe that “ANSWER MY QUESTION OR GET ME SOMEONE WHO CAN” is a reasonable response in any field, no matter who they are speaking to.


One of the things driving me nuts lately is the number of [citation needed] editing appearing on Wikipedia. For example, in the APNG article on Wikipedia, an editor stated, “The MNG file format is a more powerful alternative to APNG, although it's a more complex format.” Another editor added the [citation needed] to that.

It just struck me as lazy and irresponsible thinking. Here is an article with an impressively short and well-designed section describing the entire technical detail of APNG additions. All it would take is a click on the link at the very beginning of the same sentence to find an article that affirms the statement every few sentences or so. Or, to avoid being intellectually disingenuous, it would take nothing to glance at the actual specification to verify the correctness. This, to me, is expected behavior.

But reality is that we live in a world where people expect information to be packaged and spoon-fed to them.

There’s a scene in the new Wreck It Ralph movie where Ralph is reading Dostoevsky in a Bad-Anon class studying it, and it takes him a moment to actually admit to a classmate that he has no idea what any of it means. I wonder how few of the audience recognize the in-story commentary on the story itself... I wouldn’t have had I not looked him up after watching the film. Seems I need to go brush off some old books and “relearn” some stuff I haven’t thought since before most of the people posting homework help on this forum were born, and likely hadn’t even thought then.

Though, maybe I’ll just go read a copy of 1984 to my wife, since she doesn’t get all the jokes going around today about it.

Anyway... therein lies the problems we face...


That, and I guess I don’t like deep, depressing literature. Too much reality, I guess.
After all that has been said here, I think we do need to remember we do have serious trolls here. Personally, I think these trolls are very adept at creating memes that they know will push peoples buttons. There are obvious strategies like doing the things they know are annoying but I also think they have various strategies that aren't so obvious. I am not mentioning these strategies now, in case I give them encouragement.

Does anyone remember a few years back, someone actually admitted to having hundreds of user names, and that he knew us all very well?

I don't what it is with the psychology of these people, that they seem to enjoy wasting peoples time. I don't know if they some how weirdly think they are intellectually superior.

This post linked seems like a direct response to this topic :
http://www.cplusplus.com/forum/beginner/250557/


I think we also have users with several hundred posts, who are not who they say they are. It's possible their trolling is more subtle.

Not answering suspect posts is a good strategy: don't give them oxygen.

I did not read all the replies but read the main post.

This kind of behavior comes because it is being promoted in our society. Coming from a fast developing nation(India) I know how people are changing. There are things like feminism and other ideologies of " doing only what you want to do". When I had no knowledge of the outside world I thought that people are rude because they don't know any better. But when I saw the western world, I noticed people are intentionally rude. Then I saw the high divorce rates of these developed countries and some of their citizens behaving worse than people from Indian villages. This is very sad because people who are supposed to be better than us are behaving in a bad manner and teaching others bad things too.

Woman are known for their generous nature but in the western world they are incredibly selfish and make extremely stupid comments. Children of such mothers will grow up to be worse. Just see how many children have divorced parents. Children notice how badly their parents talk to each other and learn the same.

All the movies, education system make people self-centred. Just look how focused we are on individual success.

and this seems to be the future of my country too.
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@suyashsing234, I'm just waiting with bated breath ...

suyashsing wrote:
Woman are known for their generous nature but in the western world they are incredibly selfish and make extremely stupid comments.


At least 50% of the world's population now have their guns trained on you!
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suyashsing234, wow...overgeneralise much?
Where's the lie tho? 😂😂😂

You know how the richest woman alive got her wealth? By divorcing the richest man alive.
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When I had no knowledge of the outside world I thought that people are rude because they don't know any better. But when I saw the western world, I noticed people are intentionally rude.
There's missing information here. What did you see in the West (or more likely, what did you see in the West's TV and cinema) that you didn't see around yourself that led you to that conclusion?

This is very sad because people who are supposed to be better than us are behaving in a bad manner and teaching others bad things too.
Someone who doesn't care much about politeness would argue that what you perceive as "rude" is actually behavior that's more frank and direct, and that excessive politeness wastes times, is more dishonest, and leads to more miscommunication.
So to an American exceptionalist (which is, I assume, where you heard about the West being superior), America is better not in spite of that perceived rudeness, but partly because of it.

Woman are known for their generous nature
If you say so...

but in the western world they are incredibly selfish and make extremely stupid comments.
What, just, all of them?

Children of such mothers will grow up to be worse. Just see how many children have divorced parents.
So, what I'm interpreting from this is that that think that divorces happen mostly because women are either selfish or stupid. You know, this word gets thrown around a lot lately, but I'd say that really is a misogynist statement.

All the movies, education system make people self-centred. Just look how focused we are on individual success.
People are selfish by default, they don't need any further encouragement.
A lot of movies are about personal success because they're about escapism. Even the most selfless person would not want to fail and their efforts to go to waste.
I would rather my thread not turn into misogynistic BS.

I will agree that bad behaviour is cultured by our societies. I will not agree that India is or has ever been a bastion of good behavior toward women.

I could just as easily generalize the nature of a being by the size of the big toe as I can by gender —and the resulting idiocy would be the same. The only difference is men’s egos and willingness to accept truth over their own perceived (desired/comfortable) reality.

High divorce rates is not caused by womens' lib movements. The primary factors are changing mores about love and commitment in an increasingly individualistic world and —to a much lesser degree— greater access many women have for escaping a-holes.

Gavin De Becker said it best: Men fear being rejected by women. Women fear being murdered [or raped] by men. (paraphrased) Even in today’s most (supposedly) enlightened societies, this remains true.

And in spite of recent announcements by Google, the reality is that women still make less than men doing the same damn job. Even when doing the same job better than their peers.

Hell, if you’re black AND a woman, you are lucky if you can make 70% of what your male peers make.

Don’t give me anecdotal exceptions to the rule to try to prove I’m wrong —all that will do is prove you are an idiot for refusing, as most men invariably do, that our societies treat women like dirt.


doing only what you want to do
This comes closest to hitting on the point.

Our current society promotes the ideal that the individual is more important than the society. It is the same BS that lead up to the abuses committed during the Renaissance, except more widespread with basic-level education guaranteed by the state for everyone: the belief in one’s own intellect to understand and decide truth as superior to education, training, and experience wrought by others.

It is a blight on us that little people with little minds bully their way around the internet, thinking to make themselves smarter than everyone else. You find this behavior in every forum of every facet of life. The idea that reality and truth are to be bent around human desires.


I can come up with all kinds of examples, but here is one:

When in University I became friends with an intelligent, studious guy, who seemed, as far as I could tell, well-centered and motivated.

One day, he shared with me his belief that other drivers were slow, stupid, and incapable compared to him (and others with his awesome driving ability). He thought that there should be a special automotive license made available for people like him that permitted him to drive faster than everyone else. His driving skill was superior. He was better attentive to the road. He could read other people’s intentions better. He could react faster. Etc.

Maybe he really was a more capable driver. (I’ve never seen him drive.) But he was not a better driver. He could not see how his ego made him a dangerous driver —one that was willing to summarily discount the actions and reactions of others on the road he was supposedly sharing with them. He could not see how he had made himself blind to the potential for merit in other people. Why should he? He was superior to other mortals a priori.


Okay, one more.

I had a friend who spent some time in Japan managing the resources of his multinational company’s Japanese division. (About a year and a half, I think, but IDR for sure.) In any case, one observation he made was that Japanese people, as a whole (yes, this is a generalization, so exceptions do exist), are raised and fervently believe that they are the pinnacle of human evolution.

Heh, sounds like Americans to me. I’m an American, and I have yet to meet very many other Americans who don’t genuinely believe that America is the best of the best of the best: best society, best government, best people, best in intelligence, looks, capacity, etc. Because, you know, how many times do Americans save the world with their awesome superiority? Americans reject the reality that a lot of world conflict is a direct consequence of our actions, or that other people may not want Americans “leading” them, right or wrong.

And the real fact is that every people have this feeling at heart. The idea of the one true way of understanding, of seeing things, an incurable pride that wants to prove one’s intelligence equal to or, preferably, better than the people he has to compete with every day.

I currently live in New Mexico and I have yet to meet a people who are so horrendously under-educated yet so sure of their superior intellect and understanding as I have here. Sometimes I have to put my hands up and say to my friends here, “Look, dude, why are you trying so hard to convince me that Trump is the greatest President there has ever been? When have I ever said anything negative about him to you? Can we... go back to eating food?”

This idealistic BS cuts across geopolitical boundaries, religions, cultural groups, and families. Part of growing up is, first, overcoming this idiocy in ourselves, and second, putting up with it in others.

Heh, end rant.


tl;dr
No more stuff (de)valuing women, please.
Typical behavior of calling someone racist, misogynist, as soon as they speak something you don't like.

the reality is that women still make less than men doing the same damn job. Even when doing the same job better than their peers.


Do you know how much money is wasted on alimony, maternity leave, the safety of women, etc when there are children dying from starvation and people not able to attend colleges because of lack of money.?

I said about women because their behavior reflects the status of their peers. A woman who blames society for all her failures will breed the same children. All of my 'spoilt friends' have terrible mothers.

I will not agree that India is or has ever been a bastion of good behavior toward women.

It is the best country for women. The so called "oppression" in our country was not oppression at all but the refusal to change the old age practice of women staying at home. This refusal to change is common across the world.

At least 50% of the world's population now have their guns trained on you!


Not 50% but the few people who think all women are like them or at least want to make them like themselves.

Suppose there is a child who comes to know that his mother married his father for money. The child is very likely to treat all relationships as a form of business for the rest of his/her life.

My main point is that, to introduce correct behavior in our society it is very important that the women are like that too because men may believe it or not, most of our learning comes from our mothers.
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Get the hell off my thread.

I didn't call you a a misogynist, but your language was trending that way, and you have just gone and crossed the line.
typical response from a feminist when they can't respond. starts to cuss and report lol.
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I have not 'reported' any post in this thread, but I have now contacted the admin about this thread.

suyashsing234, it my be worth keeping your overgenerlised views to yourself. I personally find them to be borderline racist and sexist. Any escalation in this is not welcome.
Do you know how much money is wasted on alimony, maternity leave, the safety of women, etc when there are children dying from starvation and people not able to attend colleges because of lack of money.?
Amazing.

It doesn't take a feminist to find your views on women offensive, dude. You should heed Grey Wolf's advice and keep them to yourself, at least when posting in English-speaking forums. But hey, you're entirely within your right to out yourself as a misogynist if you want to.
I just want to ask. Do you guys expect people to speak only what you like especially when posting on the internet?

Coming from a fast developing nation(India) I know how people are changing. There are things like feminism and other ideologies of " doing only what you want to do". When I had no knowledge of the outside world I thought that people are rude because they don't know any better. But when I saw the western world, I noticed people are intentionally rude.

If you notice how things are changing, then you will soon also realize that one day, India will change. So no, you still don't have enough knowledge of the outside world. People from the west aren't intentionally rude. No one is intentionally rude. You think there is going to be someone that says "yeah, today I'm going to be arsehole" when they wake up? No. There are just some assholes that exists and don't learn any manners growing up. You find them anywhere in any country at any place. People will be people. It's just our nature.


It is the best country for women.

I hate to tell you, but it's one of the worst for women. Making such a bold statement shows your bias toward your country.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/02/india-most-dangerous-country-women-survey
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0966369X.2014.969684
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/06/27/india-ranked-worlds-most-dangerous-place-for-women-reigniting-debate-about-womens-safety/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a566efc098cb


All the movies, education system make people self-centred. Just look how focused we are on individual success.

I believe Helios is entirely corrected when he gave his opinion on this. People will be selfish, and I think it's great to be selfish. It shows you have a will of some sort and a goal. Even a person's own selflessness can be his/her selfishness. Through our own individual success, others might find theirs in it too.

suyashsing234, I will agree with Grey Wolf. Please watch your language because I too find them borderline racist and sexist.
suyashsing234 wrote:
I just want to ask. Do you guys expect people to speak only what you like especially when posting on the internet?
I expect a certain level of servility from people who wish to participate in a community. You have been advised that those views are not welcome, now it is up to you to either moderate yourself, leave, or face being banned by the admin.
@Grey Wolf
I will take that as a yes. fine then won't express myself.


I hate to tell you, but it's one of the worst for women. Making such a bold statement shows your bias toward your country.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/02/india-most-dangerous-country-women-survey
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0966369X.2014.969684
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/06/27/india-ranked-worlds-most-dangerous-place-for-women-reigniting-debate-about-womens-safety/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a566efc098cb


These are published by the people who can't do basic maths.

Let me tell some examples,

They say: India has most number of rape case
Common sense: When comparing different number of population you see percent not quantity.

They say: women are not allowed outside of home
Common sense: it was the culture for hundreds of years. you cant expect to change that in a 50 yrs lol. it will come slowly with education

They say: All Indians are rapists, etc
Common sense: I took your job away cause I am more hardworking. Don't hate me lol.

Come on we know better than to listen to these journalists, magazines, etc sitting in their glass towers and passing judgments.
I just want to ask. Do you guys expect people to speak only what you like especially when posting on the internet?
No, this is not an expectation. However, there is a substantial degree of social awareness required to have this kind of discussion productively and politely. One can safely expect negative reactions towards an offensive position.

Typical behavior of calling someone racist, misogynist, as soon as they speak something you don't like.
No, this isn't typical. You are being called a misogynist because your position is misogynistic.

By discounting the opposing argument, you've demonstrated that you are preaching, not arguing. You will learn nothing and convince nobody, unless you are willing to objectively consider your own position.

But when I saw the western world, I noticed people are intentionally rude.

This is a likely consequence of lacking tact and social skills. For example, doggedly presenting the same offensive and naïve conviction again and again is tactless and rude, and one can expect rudeness in return.

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Oh, friend: common sense isn't a replacement for research, and you're an idiot if you think it is.
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