The Perfect Crime

[devonrevenge]

I have an interesting fact about cancer, geography and Devon all tied into one.

Devon is hilly thanks to ground batholithic intrusion, that is the gradual forcing up of magma, or granite, a lot of people get cancer caused by radon gas slowly leaking in peoples houses over time, an effect caused by this specific geography.

its an invisible problem and no one goes round with a Geiger counter when they buy a house there but they really should.

There are a lot of activist hippies that dream of a nice house in Devon but are terrified of living near phone masts.

[Disch]

Cancer is a foreign entity that is destroying your body. By no definition is that killing yourself.

Heart failure and other types of natural causes are not so much your body killing you, as much as it is your body failing to sustain itself. So I wouldn't call that 'killing yourself' either --- with the exception of auto immune diseases, which are your body actively attacking itself.




But anyway... none of that is what people mean when they say "killing yourself". It's usually meant as a conscious decision to end your life. Diseases (even auto-immune) are not conscious decisions and thus most people would not consider people who died by then as having killed themselves.



Also, I would say spontaneous human combustion is hilariously fake because the notion of it is so absurd... but there actually do appear to be real documented cases of it... which is crazy.

That said... it's exceedingly rare. 200 reported cases worldwide in 300 years (that's less than 1 person every 100 years). And that's IF all reported cases are actually SHC and not people pulling a fast one.

The name is also misleading... as it's not spontaneous, nor is it your body combusting. It appears to be caused by the body emitting flammable gasses which are ignited by external sources. So it's less "human combustion" and more "body making itself more flammable than normal"

Interesting article on the subject:
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-08-10/india/41265678_1_shc-caught-fire-burns

[BHX]

Disch wrote:

Cancer is a foreign entity that is destroying your body. By no definition is that killing yourself.

First, in medical term is foreign body, and foreign means it is introduced from outside the body (ie food in your trachea, or dust in your eye). Second, cancer is made from with in the body (not foreign).

National Cancer Institute Definition of Cancer wrote:

Cancer is a term used for diseases in which abnormal cells divide without control and are able to invade other tissues. Cancer cells can spread to other parts of the body through the blood and lymph systems.

To me all the warnings on tobacco products say otherwise about killing yourself. So how is it that smoking is killing yourself, but just randomly getting cancer isn't killing yourself? Double standard I suppose.

Cigarette Warning Over The Years wrote:

Caution: Cigarette Smoking May be Hazardous to Your Health (1966–1970)
Warning: The Surgeon General Has Determined that Cigarette Smoking is Dangerous to Your Health (1970–1985)
SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Smoking Causes Lung Cancer, Heart Disease, Emphysema, And May Complicate Pregnancy. (1985–)
SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Quitting Smoking Now Greatly Reduces Serious Risks to Your Health. (1985–)
SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Smoking By Pregnant Women May Result in Fetal Injury, Premature Birth, And Low Birth Weight. (1985–)
SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Cigarette Smoke Contains Carbon Monoxide. (1985–)

Cigar Warning Over The Years wrote:

SURGEON GENERAL WARNING: Cigar Smoking Can Cause Cancers Of The Mouth And Throat, Even If You Do Not Inhale.
SURGEON GENERAL WARNING: Cigars Are Not A Safe Alternative To Cigarettes.
SURGEON GENERAL WARNING: Tobacco Smoke Increases The Risk Of Lung Cancer And Heart Disease, Even In Nonsmokers.
SURGEON GENERAL WARNING: Cigar Smoking Can Cause Lung Cancer And Heart Disease.
SURGEON GENERAL WARNING: Tobacco Use Increases The Risk Of Infertility, Stillbirth, And Low Birth Weight.
SURGEON GENERAL WARNING: This Product Contains/Produces Chemicals Known To The State Of California To Cause Cancer, And Birth Defects Or Other Reproductive Harm.

Smokeless Tobacco Warnings Over The Years wrote:

WARNING: This product can cause mouth cancer.
WARNING: This product can cause gum disease and tooth loss.
WARNING: This product is not a safe alternative to cigarettes.
WARNING: Smokeless tobacco is addictive.

Disch wrote:

But anyway... none of that is what people mean when they say "killing yourself".

I know what they mean, the mean suicide. Problem is, the phrase 'killing yourself' isn't legally locked to suicide.

[N36fSL3A]

^ :( Beat me to it. Just give me one chance to prove him wrong :P

Well you could argue that a foreign object causes Cancer, but it wouldn't be a very good argument.

[Paoletti301]

To me all the warnings on tobacco products say otherwise about killing yourself. So how is it that smoking is killing yourself, but just randomly getting cancer isn't killing yourself? Double standard I suppose

I know what they mean, the mean suicide. Problem is, the phrase 'killing yourself' isn't legally locked to suicide.

but most people would say " your body is killing you ". most people dont view the word "you" as meaning your body, it refers to their personality and character. so the statement "you're killing yourself because of cancer" really wouldnt make any sense.

[LB]

Consuming something that causes harm to your body or mental state, whether you know it or not, is what most people mean when they say that smoking is killing yourself.

[Script Coder]

BHXSpecter wrote:

Your body is killing you, even without a conscious attempt to end your life, you are still killing yourself.

You are not killing yourself. Cells that originated from you that are now not living roughly inside you are killing you. Also, please do not use the argument that because it comes form you it is you, because then children killing parents would be the parents killing themselves.

Disch wrote:

with the exception of auto immune diseases, which are your body actively attacking itself.

It is your immune system (sometimes only specific cells from it) going rough and seeing a normally neutral identity as a threat. So once again it is a rough entity that you made that is killing you.

Also, on a more philosophical note: What parts make "you"? I believe that the answer is subjective and thus this whole argument is pointless.

[naraku9333]

No sane person would equate cancer with suicide.

[LB]

But would a sane person equate both cancer with death and smoking with cancer?

[Manga]

I liked the answer to the riddle, "leaves", better.

Spontanious human cumbustion is not true. They don't just burst into flames by themselves, its me using my voodoo on them.

[ModShop]

People who smoke consciously make the decision to do so while being aware of the possibly lethal consequences, but that doesn't mean that they are committing suicide. I suppose you could argue that they are "killing themselves", but then you would have to say the same about every person who drives in a car because they do so knowing that it's possible for them to get killed doing so. How far do we really want to take this?

[LB]

Does the definition of suicide specifically state that you have to want to die, or just that you kill yourself? Because suicide is probably not the right word to use here, and I definitely say that committing suicide is not the same as killing yourself, because of the different connotations.

[Dy7SLyTq]

i think you have to want to die, because if i drove off a cliff because it was dark and didnt see the turn, and died, they wouldnt say i committed suicide

[LB]

It's not suicide, but you still killed yourself.

[jwkNwA7f]

DTSCode wrote:

i think you have to want to die, because if i drove off a cliff because it was dark and didnt see the turn, and died, they wouldnt say i committed suicide

100% agree.

[Script Coder]

Does the definition of suicide specifically state that you have to want to die, or just that you kill yourself?

As ****** as this is, it answers your question: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define+suicide

So I guess you can technically kill yourself, without committing suicide. But I still disagree that cancer or auto-immune diseases are you killing yourself. But to quote myself: "Also, on a more philosophical note: What parts make "you"? I believe that the answer is subjective and thus this whole argument is pointless. " ~ Me

[LB]

I'm not saying that having cancer is killing yourself, I'm saying that if cancer leads to death and smoking leads to cancer, then smoking is killing yourself since it is a voluntary action.

[Disch]

That's an unrealistic leap to make.

That's like saying if car accidents lead to death and driving leads to car accidents, then driving is killing yourself since it is a voluntary action.


There's a line at which point these cause/effect relationships stop making practical sense. I think you've crossed it.


EDIT: to put another way... "risking" your life is not the same as killing yourself. Even when the risk does not come out in your favor. Especially when the risk is small (despite what some anti-smoking people will tell you... the risk of contracting lung cancer from smoking is quite low)


EDIT 2:

In fact... comparisons between Drivers-to-Crash% and Smoker-to-LungCancer% would be an interesting statistic to look at. I'm not sure which would be higher. If I were a gambling man I'd put my money on drivers taking bigger risks than smokers.

[ModShop]

I wrote:

... I suppose you could argue that they are "killing themselves", but then you would have to say the same about every person who drives in a car because they do so knowing that it's possible for them to get killed doing so. How far do we really want to take this?

Disch wrote:

That's like saying if car accidents lead to death and driving leads to car accidents, then driving is killing yourself since it is a voluntary action.


There's a line at which point these cause/effect relationships stop making practical sense. I think you've crossed it.

=p

[BHX]

I love how everyone's argument is "it is your body killing you not you", but you can word it however you want. Fact is, your heart, lungs, liver, stomach, cells, etc. are all you. Arguing differences in body and you is like arguing that you are not you because your consciousness has been around for centuries before it came to this body. Or arguing, "I didn't hit the guy, my car did. They are just charging me because I was driving."